Big Problem????

Discussion in '1947-1954' started by Chiro, Aug 9, 2007.

  1. Chiro

    Chiro Member

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    Okay, just got the 235 fired up again with the newly rebuilt glass bowl double action fuel pump, new Carter YF carby and water pump problem taken care of. Timed the engine, set dwell dynamically with dizzy cap off as per Nate and had all kids at their respective positions and fired it up. Just as it began to idle oh so sweetly with oil coming out of every single rocker weep hole and 40 plus lbs. of pressure the engine began to knock badly:(.

    I'm grasping at straws here, but the knock feels and is in synch with the fuel pump. I put my hand on the fuel pump and felt it knosk with every knock I heard. Is it POSSIBLE that the ancient newly rebuilt fuel pump has failed? Anyone ever hear of a fuel pump knocking like a rod bearing because it really sounds like a rod bearing. Pissing me off, because other than the knock, the engine is purring like a kitten. If it is a rod bearing, can it be fixed while the engine is in the truck? I just can't stand the thought of pulling the engine. It would be so disheartening to the kids to have to do that. I know these are farm trucks and are meant to be fixed in the field, so how does one diagnose a bad rod bearing without tearing the lower half of the engine apart?

    Any help here from the resident experts would be greatly appreciated. I'm praying it's not a bearing and it's the fuel pump, but I need lots of input on this one. Should I try changing the fuel pump out and starting it again or am I asking for trouble in case it's a rod bearing and it lets go completely when I start it again?

    TIA,

    Andy
     
  2. azcarman411

    azcarman411 Member

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    Sounds like a bad fuel pump to me. I've had them go bad and make a bad racket like that. You should be able to pull the pump off and the arm is probably loose. Chris
     
  3. Zig

    Zig Member

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    I'm not one of them-there experts, but I can dang sure keep my fingers crossed that it's the pump. Did you get it from CP?

    The good news is, your children are learning that~ if you want something bad enough, you won't give up!;)
     
  4. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Lesson Time !

    Andy ;

    This is where you teach you kids not to give up when all seems lost . ;)

    I assume it's knocking @ idle ? good . remove the fuel pump bolts and pull it away from the engine , fire it up and see if the noise stops .

    It does ? great ~ take the pump back to the rebuilder or send it out to the folks who advertise OEM AC fuel pump rebuilding in Hemmings .

    It still knocks ? no biggie , pull off the # 1 spark plug wire and see if it stops , if not , replace it and move on down the line untill you find the cylinder that knocks , drain the oil , off with the pan and have a look ~ mayhap the bearing shell slipped as you were installing it or other simple thing . maybe the bearing cap bolt wasn't tight enough or the bolt stretched or any number of silly things I've seen or done over the years ~ remember , like you said , it's a simple engine and needs simple repairs .

    At worst the machinist screwed up the cam when he installed the new cam gear , you can fix it .
     
  5. Chiro

    Chiro Member

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    Thanks!!!

    I'm VERY happy that my gut was working for me tonight. I thought it was the pump as it made sense, but gosh it made an awful racket. Pulled the pump off and put on the old one that was mostly shot. Fired the engine up and the knock was gone:D. It ran for as long as it had fuel in the carby because the diaphram in the old pump really must be shot. Plus, the rebuilt pump that was on the engine was now broken:eek:. Azcarman...YOU DA MAN. You nailed it. The arm was loose when I took it off and when I tipped it over little pieces of metal came out. The guy that rebuilt this nice ORIGINAL AC dual action glass bowl pump failed me AGAIN!!! Yup, he was the guy that bent the pulley on my original GM water pump when he rebuilt it. Claimed the FLAPS who sent it to him must have dropped it after he gave it to them. I cut out the middle man and went DIRECTLY to HIM instead of the FLAPS with the water pump. At least he put a new pulley on the water pump at no charge when I brought him the fuel pump to do over. I have a little mantra about rebuilders...they get ONE chance. I gave this guy two and got bit in the patootie for it. You can guarantee that I will be bringing the broken pump back to him looking for my hard earned cash to come back into my hand. BTW Nate, this guy advertises in every Hemmings that he rebuilds these things. He doesn't advertise OEM AC rebuilding, just that he rebuilds water pumps and fuel pumps and the like. Several local motor head friends of mine know this guy and say wonderful things about him. Can't say I share their opinion after my experiences however.

    I'll call the good FLAPS guy tomorrow who has been Johnny-on-the-spot for me and order up an after market dual action fuel pump. Bet he has it for me by the end of the day.

    BTW, I called number one son up as soon as I knew it wasn't a rod bearing to tell him the good news. Boy was he relieved. At the dinner table tonight when the possibility of pulling the engine was raised he said he wasn't going to do it with me again. He stayed up with me till one in the morning putting it in and he was SOOOO tired when the engine finally set into place. He changed his tune when the other two immediately chimed in that they would gladly help pull the engine if we needed to:rolleyes:.

    Boy did it run sweet for the short time it was running, though. The kids were in AWE of how smooth it ran. Nate, I gotta tell you that the dizzy-cap-off, pull-the-spark-plugs method of setting the dwell was awesome. You can really see the bushing wear on the dizzy when setting the dwell that way. It varied a LOT and I set it so the middle of the range was at 33 degrees. And the NOS auto choke Carter YF carby just kicked butt. Ran for a short while at high idle, then the RPM's slowly came down as the choke released. Very smooth and the throttle response was very nice.

    Thanks everyone for helping out with the latest problem. This truly is a great forum filled with even better people.

    Andy
     
  6. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Well ;

    Glad it worked out O.K. Andy ! .

    I'm sorry to hear the rebuilder didn't work out , I hope you can maybe get a kit and rebuild your original AC pump as they're not only well made but a joy to see in place , doing thier thing .

    I know Airtex makes the dual action pump , if you look in the archives the P/N is there as I posted it when I ordered one up a while back , maybe years....

    I had a thought to take a brandy new Airtex dual action pump apart and see if the diaphrams would fit the original AC pump....
     
  7. Chiro

    Chiro Member

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    Called the guy I bought my Mustang from this morning. He has a parts store that he runs like a hobby. Hardly ever there, the place is a mess, etc. But...he has lots of really old stuff laying around for the last 40 years or so. He had an Airtex glass bowl double action pump new in the box. Put it on and fired it up this morning. First time ever that I had the engine up to running temp. It ran great. Blows a little oil but the engine is 50 years old after all. All in all I'm very happy. Engine purred like a kitten and I ran it for about an hour while checking dwell, RPM's, timing, etc. Gonna put the gas tank in, new battery box and battery and I'm going to put it into gear and drive it in the parking lot of my home/office just to feel it roll under it's own power. Don't have brakes yet, so it'll stay in granny gear and reverse only. Will do the brakes with the kids this week, put the bed and the nose back on and then tackle the wiring harness. Mere weeks away from registration and driving on the road.

    Cool:cool:

    Andy
     
  8. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Yayyyyyy !!!!!!!

    Just remember : if you need to stop suddeny , kill the engine but DON'T touch the clutch and the engine will bring it to a halt PDQ .:p

    Brakes next ? good ! .

    Only three things can touch any rubber part or the inside of the hydrauilc system : brake fluid , alcohol and brake cleaner ! . use NEW brushes and rags etc. un contaminated be even he tinyest amounts of grease or oil .!
     

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