Fuel injection for my 54 235

Discussion in '1947-1954' started by drummin52, Mar 9, 2009.

  1. drummin52

    drummin52 Member

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    I had read a few threads and articles online about adding fuel injection to a non fuel injected vehicle and decided why not try it on my 54 235 thats in my 52 3/4 ton pickup. There are a few people on stovebolt.com that have done this, or are in the process of doing the conversion. There are a few ways to do this, I decided to go the route of using a Throttle Body Injection unit, wire harness, sensors and computer from a GM 4.3L V6 truck, years 88 thru 92.

    I started with a trip to the local u-pull-it yard where I got a 4.3L TBI unit, harness w/ sensors and a computer (conversion uses ECM model #'s 122747 or 122746)
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0718.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0719.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0717.jpg

    The sensors needed are
    -Throttle position sensor (TPS)
    -Coolant temperature sensor (CTS)
    -Manifold absolute pressure sensor (MAP)
    -Idle air control valve (IAC)
    -O2 sensor
    -Electronic spark control module (ESC) - optional
    -Knock sensor (connects to ESC) - optional
    -Electronic timing control module (ETC) - optional if you want the computer to control ignition timing

    Also needed to use the GM TBI unit is a aftermarket intake manifold, I am using a clifford 2/4bbl aluminum intake. I designed and had a local machine shop cut out a TBI mount plate for the clifford intake. There are 4bbl to tbi adapter plate available from places like summit but for the same amount (about $50) I had my own made so I can mount the tbi directly to the intake instead of to the tbi adapter plate, which is bolted to the 4bbl plate, which is then bolted to the intake. This way there are less places for things to go wrong. I had a holley 390cfm carb on the intake, thats why I have a 4bbl plate.
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0720.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0736.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0738.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0739.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0740.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0741.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0742.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0743.jpg

    Next was the computer, which I mounted on the passenger side kick panel. The engine wiring will be completely separate from all other wiring in the truck. The harness came out of a full size gm truck, it gets stripped down and all unused wires removed.
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0744.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0745.jpg

    This conversion requires the use of a fuel pump that can supply up to 15psi. The stock mechanical pump gets removed and a block off plate installed. I will be using a external mount electric fuel pump from a 80's to early 90's ford car or truck, mounted to the frame next to the fuel tank, which is a 16gal fuel cell, mounted behind the rear axle. The conversion also requires a return line back to the tank.

    In order for the computer to control the timing, I must do some modification to the GM 250 inline 6 distributor that I already have installed. It involves removing the vacuum advance parts and wiring in the electronic timing control module.

    I will update this thread as I progress further along



    a few good links
    http://www.bustedjeep.com/projects/junkyardtbi.asp
    http://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads...=7412&Words=tbi&topic=0&Search=true#Post46347
    http://chevythunder.com/gm_throttle_body_injection_pg_1.htm
    http://www.championparts.com/tbi_applications.pdf

    this guy is using a dual carb manifold with two tbi units.
    http://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=60320&Number=439054#Post439054
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2009
  2. ol' chebby

    ol' chebby Member

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    Very nice,
    I'll be interested in hearing it run!
     
  3. drummin52

    drummin52 Member

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    thanks, my digital camera take video, so if I remember I will record the first run.
     
  4. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Great Project !

    I'll follow this thread with keen interest .

    I like F.I. and I think the venerable Stove Bolt will benifit greatly from it .

    Jeep sells a nice F.I. add on kit for the old AMC InLine 6 Banger , I keep waiting for someone to use that as the kits is (was) incredibly cheap and used all stock parts .
     
  5. drummin52

    drummin52 Member

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  6. drummin52

    drummin52 Member

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    OK, made some good progress today, I will post pictures tomorrow of what I got done.

    I went to the local yard and got a thermostat housing off a 261 that has two ports so I can install the coolant temp sensor and keep my hot water heat for my clifford intake.

    I got about 75% of the wiring done, most sensors are wired. Whats left is the power wires from the fuse block, distributor modification, fuel pump wiring, esc/knock sensor wiring and some smaller stuff.

    I was reading online about others doing fuel injection conversions using tbi and what fuel pump to use. A bunch of mixed out comes with different pumps. The ford external pump got a lot of mixed reviews, some said it worked fine, others said it didn't provide enough pressure. I ended up buying a new pump from summit racing. I went with a Carter P5001 pump made specifically for TBI conversions, that supplies a max 20psi and 50gph. A bit more than I wanted to spend at $150, but everyone that used it was very pleased with it and I figured it would be better than a 20-/+ year old pump from the junkyard. http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1∂=CRT-P5001&N=700+115&autoview=sku
     
  7. drummin52

    drummin52 Member

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    As promised, PICTURES!!!
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0791.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0773.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0790.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0789.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0788.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0787.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0780.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0779.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0777.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0776.jpg

    About 90% of the wiring is complete, its was a lot easier than I expected, was a bit daunting looking at that nest of wiring at first but I think it turned out nice and took shape quickly.

    I used velcro to mount the esc to the computer, that way if it gives me problems, I will just remove the knock sensor and esc completely, nice an easy to remove and no holes to patch up.

    I need to weld in the O2 sensor bung yet, I also decided its probably best to buy a new O2 sensor. Since I have dual exhaust, which exhaust should I put the O2 sensor in, the front or back or does it not matter?
     
  8. drummin52

    drummin52 Member

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    I though I had got lucky and got the stuff to change the gm 250 distributor over to computer control and keep it all in the distributor but it didn't turn out as I expected. I pickup up the ignition control module and such out of a mid 80's v6 car, and even test fitted it in another 250 distributor in the yard, but when I got back home, I tried installing it in my distributor but the two screws that hold the module down were about 1/4" further apart. When I go back to the yard Im going to try the ignition module in the dist. that I test fitted it in to see if maybe they changed it at some point as I thought the mounting holes lined up. Here is what I picked up.
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/100_0775.jpg

    For now I'm just going to mount the ignition module on the passenger side inner fender and run the wires over to the distributor like the guy did on the bustedjeep.com junkyard tbi conversion that was posted earlier.
     
  9. Zig

    Zig Member

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    Well...

    T-i-m-e!
    That's all I need to run over what you've posted, but I will.

    You know~ we are in an age that allows us to think about rolling down the road in an old straight 6. I can only imagine that it won't be long before our old tooters will need to be putting out sweet smelling gas, or we won't be driving them.

    Updates like yours are great to read about! You're pushing the envelope in a good direction, and us who want to drive ours for ever and ever need to read closely about what you're trying to accomplish.

    Thanks, Chris!

    Good stuff!:cool:
     
  10. drummin52

    drummin52 Member

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    some new pictures, starting at http://s175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/TBI CONVERSION/?action=view&current=100_0795.jpg

    this is up to where I am at right now. Should be done, if nothing else comes, this weekend. I need to get a new ignition switch as the one I bought is a piece of crap, for some reason when the key is in run, the start terminal is powered, and then goes off when I turn the key to start. Cheap crap I bought at autozone.



    oh and don't laugh at the distributor and the hot glue. It works or at least I hope it will keep the water out.
     
  11. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Ign. Switch

    Chris ;

    You've got two leads reversed , the accessory post is supposed to go dead when the starter is energized .

    Mayhap the labeling of the posts is wrong ? .
     
  12. drummin52

    drummin52 Member

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    the switch is wired correctly, there are 4 terminals (1 BATT, 1 ACC, 1 RUN, 1 START) The first three are on the outer edge and the start in the center. It worked fine at one point, but when tighening one of the terminals, I think something went a bit further than it should have. I can just see it giving me problems in the future so I might as well replace it with a high quality piece.
     
  13. ropo355

    ropo355 Member

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    Chris, What's the plan for the throttle linkage? Everything looks great, keep up the good work! Ron
     
  14. drummin52

    drummin52 Member

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    Well when I was using the 4bbl carb I had a lokar pedal and cable. The ends are different for the thorttle body then the carb. I emailed Lokar and they are suppose to be calling me on monday.
     
  15. drummin52

    drummin52 Member

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    Just thinking of stuff to do/finish before I start her up...Is there anything I can do to fool the computer into thinking the egr valve is still plugged in, a resistor in line or something. Im just thinking that if I leave it missing and go to start it up that I will always have a engine light on and be in limp mode because the computer does not see the egr valve. Id like to be able to see if any other problems come up and see the light turn on when something pops its head out.



    Just about done. Wiring is 99% complete, all that is left is the check engine light, I have the other wiring nicely coverd in wire loom. I ordered a much better igniton switch from summit, way better than the $6 piece of crap I bought locally. O2 sensor bung is welded in, picking up a new O2 sensor and a coolant temp sensor tonight. Fuel line is somewhat ran, I bent some 3/8" and 5/16" hard line for in the engine compartment, starts on the passenger side frame, up along the firewall, over to the driver side and down to the tbi unit. Supply and return lines are ran, just need to pick up some more insulated clamps to secure them to the frame. Calling lokar tonight to see about a cable end to connect my lokar throttle cable to the tbi unit.
     
  16. ropo355

    ropo355 Member

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    Maybe just get the electronic solenoid it actually plugs into and not have it do anything , if I remeber right the solenoid controls the vacuum, which controls the valve. Hide it under the dash. It won't know if it's working as long as the solenoid is good. just a thought.
     
  17. drummin52

    drummin52 Member

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    That will probably be one of the things I will try. The other thing Im going to try is taking my multimeter and measuring the resistance across the two terminals on the solenoid and seeing if I can get a resistor that matches. There is another item wired in parallel with the egr valve called a electronic vacuum regulating valve. Probably get a resistance value off of that and add it to the amount for the egr valve.....just thinking.


    I know on later years, or at least I recall somewhat, I had a 4.3L vortec in a 94 blazer for example, that after opening the egr valve the computer would look for a change in the O2 sensor reading.
     
  18. drummin52

    drummin52 Member

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    OK I'm getting there

    Fuel lines are done, definitely one of the more time consuming "to do" items for the conversion. Some pictures
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/final tbi conversion pics/100_0873.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/final tbi conversion pics/100_0871.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/final tbi conversion pics/100_0868.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/final tbi conversion pics/100_0869.jpg

    I ordered some heat tape to wrap the fuel lines that go over the intake and exhaust manifolds. I may also put some type of shield that if any fuel does start to leak, it will go away from the manifolds.

    the O2 sensor
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/final tbi conversion pics/100_0862.jpg

    and the finished wiring
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/final tbi conversion pics/100_0855.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/final tbi conversion pics/100_0854.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/final tbi conversion pics/100_0853.jpg
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/final tbi conversion pics/100_0852.jpg

    For the most part the conversion is done. Before I start it I have a few more things I need to finish. I need to weld in some exhaust flex pipes in after the header flanges.
    http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w124/rockfan1815/100_0867.jpg (like my model 1952 chevy pickup)

    I need to install my new ignition switch and I also ordered two magnaflow mufflers that Id like to install as soon as I get them.

    I bought a piston stop so I can put timing marks on the crank pulley instead of using the flywheel and bell housing method for initial timing. I also need to get the belts so I will be able to run it for a bit longer than a few minutes.

    Other than those its just about done.
     
  19. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Lack of a keyway makes the pulley useless for timing marks...
     
  20. drummin52

    drummin52 Member

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    didn't think of that, thanks



    Well I ran into bit of a problem, I wanted to purge the fuel lines to make sure I didn't have any leaks before I started it up for the first time. So I hooked up a wire (with a 20amp fuse) to the positive post on the battery and connected the other end to the positive wire on the fuel pump and.................NOTHING...well almost, the pump makes a click, more like a clank and that is it. I unhooked the rubber fuel line where it connects to the line I have on the firewall and tired it again and once again all I got was a clank noise.

    I believe this is a solenoid type pump. It will continue to make a clanking noise each time I apply power, but thats it. Guess I will have to call carter up and see what they say.
     

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