The weather has been nice so naturally a man's thoughts turn to...HIS TRUCK Buttoned up the driveline today following Nate's most excellent instructions on ball seal shimming. Everything went great until I went to push the truck out of the garage to change a door and it wouldn't move. I put the 4-speed into neutral, but the truck would not go. Truck is not running yet so man power is how it moves, not horsepower. Went to the front and turn the engine over by hand via the radiator fan. Truck creeps forward, obviously in gear. Friend of mine says that the toploaders are tricky to put back together and asked if I had the cover off the muncie at any time. Of course, otherwise you can't put it in the truck. Also had the cover off when I went to purchase from hot rodder who pulled it from his truck. He had the cover off also. Is there a trick to getiing the cover on correctly on these mounstrously heavy muncie sm420 transmissions? Anybody got any ideas? Enquiring minds want to know. Andy
Ha Andy, First of all watch you hands Take a second and start by checking the linkage roads make sure they are installed proper and not backwards-(Yes I have been there and done it). I checked my old transmission books. Only thing I could see would maybe the pawls are caught when the plate was reinstalled. Not sure how easy it is in your truck to pull the plate back enough to move them ? I have a friend whom has done work on these boxes I will try and see what he thinks if I can reach him.
Ouch Yeah, this muncie is giving me trouble again. You better believe I'm watching my hands around that thing. That's why I wanted to get the driveline finished up...so I could finally stay away from the darned thing. Andy
Locked In Gear Andy ; Didja try stepping on the clutch to see if it'll roll then ? . I bet it will . You're talking abut the Muncie SM420 tranny . right ? there's two shift forks and one is slipped out of the groove in the shift drum ~ if you remove the floorboard and unbolt the tranny lid , lie on the floor as you lift up the cover 1/4" or so and peer in with a flashlight , you'll prolly see the mis-aligned parts , it's easy to do as that darned lid is heavy . Have a look and lemme know , 'K ? . If you're dealing with a three speed , side loading tranny the deal is quite similar except you must needs lie on your back and kinda ' tip ' the side cover into place so the channeled thingies (tech term. there) don't slip as you close it up . I hope this helps , I'm still sick as a dog and working on SWMBO's Mercedes @ Joey's sop , the plastic fan turned up with hairline cracks 'round the bolt holes and a new one won't be in 'till Wednesday so I'm done for this week (I HOPE !) I'll try to check in again soon . 'K ? this isn't a big setback , you'll see .
Yeah Nate, I had pulled the cover off already and found that the shifter forks were not aligned. Lined them up in their respective grooves and popped the cover back on. Still stuck in gear. Gears move freely when the cover is off and the tranny LOOKS great inside. No evidence of worn gears, etc. Is it possible that the reverse shift lever all the way on the passenger side of the tranny is not engaging with its respective part in the cover properly? Shifter does not move at all now even though I thought I lined everything up proper. Going to have another go at it right now as soon as I sign off, but it's really cold here today (what happened to spring?) so I probably won't spend a lot of time on it. And yes, when the truck would not move I installed the clutch linkage and pedal. Had my son sit in the cab and depress the clutch and the truck would move, of course. I still want the tranny out of gear, however. This is beginning to piss me off. Any other ideas with this 4-speed? Anybody have experience with this problem? Andy
Take the lid off and try clicking it in and out of gear using the grooved selector rings, when i rebuilt my one i found it was possible to select 2 gears at once and lock the box up, make sure reverse is not selected and manually find neutral with selectors before aligning the forks and dropping the lid back on, cant remember exactly but i think its possible for the reverse arm to be completely out of its place but still move reverse gear by pushing on the gear itself rather than the selector groove, ________ Hawaii dispensaries
Don't Panic O.K. Andy ; Here's what ya gotta do : Jack up one rear wheel and take the tranny cover off , move the internal sliders untill the one rear wheel can be turned easily ~ this is neutral , sometimes the sliders will move and you'll lock it in two gears simultaineously , this has happened to me a few times , no sweat , just takes a few minutes fiddling with it to ensure it's in neutral , then cover on and you should be good to go...
Yeah Nate, That's EXACTLY what I was going to do next. Will try it tomorrow and see what happens. Thanks for your input Brit. Didn't know you were running a 4-speed also. Got the kids right now and it's getting too late and cold. Wish I was in California. Always wanted to live there. What did Simon and Garfunkel say about the New York City winters bleeding them? Remember that one or am I dating myself too much? Andy
Well Andy ; Khalifornia isn't the paradise it was in 1969 when 1st. I came here , I hate the cold & snow -so- much I'll stay here untill I have to go , I hope to die here in the warm , smoggy air , gunshots all 'round (but still my house the -only- one sans bullet holes ) earthquakes (REALLY scary , trust me) and our taxes that are approaching Massachussetts rapidly , all the rest of the crazy B.S. the Fruits & Nuts make us do..... Oops ~ was I ranting again ?! sorry . I remember when in 1964 (?) when Garfunkel came to our house for some reason , I don't recall the what's or whys but I did get to meet lots of interesting people back then , too bad I wasn't smart enough top apreciate it at the time . I'd ask Moms but she's not doing well right now , may not make it , we'll see . Anyway , take your time as the reverse slider slipping out of neutral or etc. came bring your whole project to a screetching stop ., I think you'll fiddle with it and all will be well .
"New York City winters bleeding me" Andy, if you're dating yourself, you're dating me too! What a classic line from the song "The Boxer" by S&G off of their #1 album in 1970 named "Bridge over Troubled Water". Thanks for the flashback
Chiro says he can move it when he pushes the clutch in. That should eliminate the chance that the tranny is in two gears at once.
Just so ~ glad to see someone is paying attention here ! . This long distance trouble shooting can be mind bending .
No time to work on the truck today. Itching to get it out of gear, though. May not get a chance to work on it until Tuesday afternoon. Full patient load tomorrow and stress test on Tuesday most of the day. Thanks everyone for the input. Will keep posted as soon as I get out there again. Andy
Success Yes, that's right the truck is out of gear, in neutral and freewheeling again . Got two of my boys to help out. Jacked one rear wheel in the air and with one boy working that tire and another depressing the clutch pedal managed to get it out of gear. Here's the trick for anyone else who may run into this problem. Look in the factory service manual page 7-121 for exploded view of the monstrously heavy Muncie SM420 (ouch ). Parts numbered 34, 36, 37 and 38 are the culprits. Part 34 is the third and fourth gear clutch hub into which fit the three number 36 third and fourth speed clutch keys at equal intervals around the perimeter of the clutch hub. Part number 37 is the third and fourth speed clutch sleeve. That sleeve was pushed forward beyond the limits of the clutch keys (number 36). The sleeve was then unable to slide far enough back onto the clutch hub (number 34) and third and fourth speed synchro cone (number 38) to disengage the tranny. The boy on the wheel rotated the wheel (and therefore tranny gears) to three different positions and the clutch keys were then depressed into the respective recesses in the clutch hub. This allowed the clutch sleeve to disengage and slide back over the clutch keys (as it is supposed to do) and putting the truck into neutral once again. Thanks to everyone and especially to Nate and Brit for their suggestions that helped the boys and I with another problem. Everyone on this forum is great and I have printed up countless threads and put them into a binder for future reference. Andy
"Those boys were good for something after all." Why did I hear the voice of the Hudson Hornet from "Cars" when I read this?
Good one Zig. Can always count on you. BTW you guys will have to just wait for my next grilling installment. Promise it's going to be great. Andy
And ....? How did the stress test go ? Was it one of those fun treadmill things ? I did one and was terrified they'd kill me as that's what all my buddies who've done it reported , I just kept on jogging along and talking Motos with the assistant untill they finally had it zipping right along and then tipped it as steep as it'd go ~ whew ! I didn't know I still had that much in me... Or didja have a different typ of stress test ? nosy minds want to know
