Number 1 cylinder making me crazy!!

Discussion in '1947-1954' started by Flashlight, Aug 12, 2010.

  1. Flashlight

    Flashlight Member

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    Help Please...

    I've put on three distributor caps, 2 distributors, numerous plugs, points and condensers and rotors, wires. I can remove the number one plug wire and the motor is just as smooth as can be. Put on the number one plug wire and give it some gas and she starts missing very rhythmically. Its 95 degrees in the garage and I just spent $200 on my best mechanic, and can't figure out what is going on!!!

    He's thinking something like a carbon chip under the intake valve, but I have 160lbs on all cylinders.

    I want to sell this, but don't feel clean until I figure this out, and fix it:eek:.

    Flashlight
     
  2. MN Jim

    MN Jim Member

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    Just a thought, but pull the valve cover and watch the rocker arms on #1 cylinder when you crank it over they should move about the same if they dont it might be a worn cam shaft.
     
  3. brit 50

    brit 50 Member

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    firing order

    You got the firing order right?
     
  4. coilover

    coilover Member

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    First, let me come help you if it's only 95 in your garage; I'll pack some warm clothes to bring with me. Three things needed for a cylinder to fire are: compression (you have that), spark (I'd think you have that also with all the parts tried), and fuel. With 160#'s on that cylinder you can pretty much eliminate anything in either the cylinder or the valve train. The very best thing would be if an old time repair shop near you had a Heyer or Allen scope and someone that KNEW HOW to read one. A good scope man can tell you the gap on each plug with the engine running. Just for grins hold #1 and #5 plug wire off the plugs and compare the rhythm of the firing impulses and how wide of a gap they will jump. Now for what it really may be; a vacuum leak on that cylinder only. It takes around 15 parts air to one part fuel for one to fire right so a leak that allows it to be 20 parts air just doesn't work. The compression doesn't suffer because the rings and valves don't know they are compressing air instead of an air/fuel mixture. Here's a digital thermometer mounted out side the north wall (notice the shade) at my place and sharp eyes can see it reads 109.0 and this is just after noon.
     
  5. Flashlight

    Flashlight Member

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    Thanks Fellas,

    Brit, everyone in my neighborhood knows Nates firing order prose by now...15 is too young, 36 too old, 24 just right!! Actually at my age 36 seems a bit young these days, but I'd give it a good try.

    Evan, you may be on to something. Since I put those new racing headers and dual intakes on there I will recheck all. Thanks again.

    Flashlight
     
  6. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Weird Miss

    Since you're sure the firing order is correct , get a Foo-Foo can of engine starting fluid (ether) and put a snorkel in it and begin testing for intake manifold leaks....

    It's been years but I well remember many I-6's with the firing order mixed up ' Just So ' that would run passably except for a bad idle....

    IIRC , the deal was : they'd not started with the # 1 cylinder @ TDC (triangle/chevron on pointer) correctly lined up in the dizzy....

    Why are you seling your beloved truck ? :confused: maybe it doesn't want to go and so is being difficult :rolleyes: .
     
  7. brit 50

    brit 50 Member

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    Would you be honest enuf to admit that the firing order was wrong(if it is) on here? just asking;)
     
  8. Flashlight

    Flashlight Member

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    I am keeping the 47' that's on my header, its all original. The 53' I have been playing with some and thought I got a good deal on it, I hoped to maybe make a few bucks on it. But....its way over budget and, surprise!! I'll be lucky to break even. Not a word of it to SWMBO..please.

    I now realize that the right Kingpin is bad and that will really kill the profitability. I think Willard aptly stated that after you put $20,000 into it you'll have a great $12,000 truck.
    I am looking forward to starting the Grand Wagoneer "Woody".

    Brit, sure I'd say so, I wish it were only that easy a fix. But my luck just isn't running that way with this truck. I think I found an old shop down the road that still has a scope and I will see if they will hook me up. They are a little scary to deal with, don't take well to outsiders even if they are only from the next valley. Got all kinds of Keep-out, survivers will be prosecuted type signs. It was closed to day...Friday afternoon must be fishing time. If you don't hear from me I was last seen heading into "Kelly Gap, TN"

    SOWEEEE! Flashlight
     
  9. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    The CORRECT Firing Order

    I was talking about ENGINES there as life has tought me that Women , much like an old truck , are much better , once properly broken in and have a few miles on the clock .

    If you're really lucky , someone else did the PIA breakin part for you and did a good job to boot :rolleyes: .

    I'll be keeping both my '49 Chevy 3100 AND SWMBO (nevermind her build date) thankyouverymuch :D .

    I _did_ try dating a cute 25 YO after my divorce , she actually liked to sit in the back yard under my tangerine tree and read & chat whilst I worked on greasy old machines , sounds plu - perfect doesn't it ?.

    Sadly , it wasn't ~ she was just too young for me although lusty & busty , full of life and fun .
     
  10. brit 50

    brit 50 Member

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    Clearance

    Have you got good valve clearance on no 1 cyl, if its real tight clearance on one cylinder you may get a missfire
     
  11. Flashlight

    Flashlight Member

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    My mechanic friend said he did check that, but I did not so it may be on my check again list. As my old Captain used to say "if you didn't personally check it, it probably didn't get done".

    I've bought the can of starter fluid that Nate suggested and I assumed I was supposed to spray the manifold joints to see if there is a leak. But...to be perfectly honest...I'm not sure what I am supposed to be looking for or seeing!

    As you can see from my Avatar that I'm from the sticks and no one expects me to be too bright, so its no biggy to plead ignorance. Now, having the Scots-Irish genetics, we do understand the process of distillation very keenly, especially from these hills.

    Flashlight
     
  12. bigtimjamestown

    bigtimjamestown Member

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    Spray the starter fluid around the joints as said before and listen to the engine. If the idle speed changes then that's where your vacuum leak is at.....Big Tim :cool:
     
  13. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Hey !

    I'm Scots-Irish (means White Trash) too so , uh , er .

    never mind :p .

    ANYWAYS , I'm from the sticks too (rural New England in case you forgot) and I was able to sort out an old GM truck , this means you can too ! just save the Jameson until later , O.K. ? .

    YOU must check and adjust the valves , do it on a hot engine and then run it at the lowest idle you can and begin spraying the intake manifold to head joints , there's three of them , they're the unrusted joints , remember to burn your hands by spraying up from underneath too . if the engine suddenly speeds up or dies when you're spraying , that's the leak .

    DO NOT try to tighten any bolts / nuts while the engine is hot ! :eek: they'll snap and cause a whole 'nother set of problems .

    Hopefully , this is now as clear as mud .
     
  14. Flashlight

    Flashlight Member

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    Hold on now....you mean, out in California you don't start with a ceremonial toast to Baccus, the God of happy mechanics:D. If your chemistry is just right a good 180 proof mix will start you, and a slight dribble down the Air Horn has been known to benefit difficult motors as well. Must burn blue whilst being proofefed!!:p

    Nate you must have been from reliable stock, as the English chased the rest of us down the Great Wagon Road to the hills of Tennessee, we buffered those Northern Aristocrats from the savages:eek:.

    Soon as I get SWMBO's to-do list under control, and a new starter switch from our sponsor I'm getting back on that beast. I also found a tooth missing on my flywheel, it comes up, about every third of fourth start. That's so annoying!!:(

    Flashlight
     
  15. federale

    federale Member

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    Re:No. 1 miss

    Have you considered a worn cam lobe or pushrod? May sound good at idle,but misfire under load.
     
  16. Flashlight

    Flashlight Member

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    You are just full of good news:(!! I have not considered the Cam or pushrods, and not really sure how I would check them. Right now it sounds great at idle and also at a little bit of throttle without load. If I give her more then half throttle the regular miss starts. The #1 plug gets sooty real fast:confused:. I believe the PO rebuilt the motor, with 160# pounds of compression across the board. It has hydraulic lifters. As peppy as it is I think it may have a bit of a cam in it as well. But..I did find the Dizzy to be worn and replaced it. To double check, I cannabilized the dizzy off of another 235. No change there. So now Chebby's 235 has a new dizzy as well:). I do have spark on that plug when I remove it. I did notice the new dizzy made a crease on 2 or 3 of the contacts on the distributor cap??

    Flashlight
     
  17. bigtimjamestown

    bigtimjamestown Member

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    If you have a flat cam or a cam that is going flat or a bent push rod you will have excessive clatter on the valve train. If this is the case you should pull the valve cover, roll the engine over an make sure all the valves are opening and closing the same then check the adjustment. If the valve adjustment is good and there isn't 1 that's out of the norm and you don't see any bent push rods then your cam is fine. You also mention that you have hydraulic lifters and that it runs fine at an idle and part throttle but at higher RPM'S is when you get the miss, could it be that 1 of the rocker arm adjustments is too tight and at higher RPM'S the lifter pumps up and causes the valve to stay open causing said miss? I know everyone rants and raves about proper valve adjustment on this site but with hydraulics if you just pull the valve cover and start the engine and while at an idle loosen each valve adjuster 1 at a time then back off until it starts to make noise then tighten until the noise stops plus 1/4 turn you should be fine ....Big Tim :cool:
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010
  18. coilover

    coilover Member

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    Guys, read his first post CAREFULLY; ALL the cylinders have 160#'s of compression which is extremely good for one of these engines and pretty much eliminates any valve/push rod/ lifter/ rocker/ guide/ seat/ rings/ or gasket. A 160# cylinder WILL run smooth if spark and air-fuel are right. An intermittent binding of one of the moving parts of the valve train is possible but unlikely. A broken valve spring could give a good cranking compression reading and then miss due to valve bounce under higher RPM but again unlikely.
     
  19. brit 50

    brit 50 Member

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    But..I did find the Dizzy to be worn and replaced it. To double check, I cannabilized the dizzy off of another 235. No change there. So now Chebby's 235 has a new dizzy as well:). I do have spark on that plug when I remove it. I did notice the new dizzy made a crease on 2 or 3 of the contacts on the distributor cap??

    Flashlight[/QUOTE]

    MMMMMMMM interesting, new dizzy made a crease on 2 or 3 of the contacts! you sure you have the right cap on there, or rotor arm, the rotor should miss the contacts by a fair bit so to be hitting them it makes me think you have miss matched parts or a bent shaft, try moving the no1 lead and plug to another cyl to eliminate them from the equation, other than that have you got any take offs on the manifold, brake servo or something like that near the front cyl, is it just the one plug that soots up or is that the only one your pulling out?
     
  20. brit 50

    brit 50 Member

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    Head gasket

    Only other thing i can think of is a blown head gasket between 1-2 cylinders
     

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