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Had a water pump mishap!

Bilbo

Bilbo

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Well, Wife and I went galavanting around town on Thursday as I had pre-op doctor stuff to do. I wanted to take the Truck, so after much pleading, Susan agreed. We did all our running around, and left our last appointed stop about 10 miles from home. Got 2 miles down the road and "WHAM", something broke under the hood. Were just about to get on a bridge so I did a quick stop, (using my new front disc brakes) and pulled over and shut down. Here's what I found going on under the hood.... :eek:
 

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vwnate1 said:
Is that the Brand 'F' pulley many use ? .
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I don't really know, Nate. It was on the truck when I got it... I did have a spare pulley that was 1/2" shorter. I needed to change the water pump anyway, so I pressed the hub down a half inch on the new one and installed it. BTW, I re-checked the valves after the water pump replacement and a drive, Per Nate's detailed instructions. All's well. Rocker arm rattle and all.:)

Probably last drive for a while. Have surgery on Monday and won't be able to drive for a while... look forward to getting back behind the wheel.:rolleyes:
 
235 engine pulley ?

Billbo

Glad nothing big happened after using so much efford and Money on Your beautifull truck .

Is that the original 235 Ci engine pulley and waterpump ?

Martinius.
 
Martinius, I think that is the original water pump pulley. Probably not the original pump. It must have had hairline cracks that I couldn't see. It had been cleaned up and painted, which usually would show a crack.... Problem solved anyway. :)
 
RidesWithYah said:
Nice.
Other than not having to drill and tap two holes, why would I choose this over the kits that raise the pump higher on the block?
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-1962-C...Parts_Accessories&hash=item20b3d59afe&vxp=mtr

Drilling & tapping 2 holes into a cast iron engine block that is already prone to cracking would be my major concern for not using that kit.....{ good luck drilling & tapping those holes accurately when you are laying over the radiator support with your drill in hand}.

In addition.... the adapter plate used on that kit is made of bare soft steel which will turn into a glob of rust in short order when exposed to water.

The earlier 216 water pump used on this kit {which is not included by the way } has the larger belt pulley which will not work on the smaller pulley groove of the 235 harmonic balancer.... so you are also looking at finding an earlier 216 balancer & switching that out also. Using mismatched pullies is a sure way to end up with a mess just like Bilbo is dealing with.

Not to mention that the 235 water passages in the head & block are designed to work with an internally mounted water pump mounted inside the block..... simply bolting an earlier 216 external pump from a different motor on the outside of the block is kinda half assed.


Locate a rebuilt or new 216 water pump... as this kit has no pump.
Remove radiator & drill & tap holes in the block :eek: ....re-install radiator
Find another harmonic balancer, remove & replace
Try to find the correct length fan belt



Sounds like a lot of work when all you have to do is mount our pump & pulley kit up with 4 simple bolts & go.


.
 
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DeadZoneTruckin said:
Quit messin' around & get one of our water pump kits for trouble free operation....

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=617581
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I appreciate your position on this, Joe, but because I already had a suitable pulley, and needed to replace the water pump anyway, it looks like the simplest solution for me was to use existing equipment. No fan clearance problems, and everything lines up perfectly, with proper sheave sizes. Thanks for the info, though. :)
 
A small percentage of installations {depending on the the fan blade & harmonic balancer used used} require a 1/4" spacer for the blade to clear the harmonic balancer.

Spacers are cheap here...

http://www.buyautotruckaccessories.com/product.cfm/cf-bin/pn.derale-fan-spacer-kits/


http://www.streetperformance.com/m/cats/199-cooling-and-hvac/4315-fan-spacer.html


That particular truck pictured actually has a GMC radiator mounted in it which set the radiator forward in the support & a spacer was needed to actually position the blade closer to it.... so that is not a typical installation.

And yes that is a stock '55-'62 261 Five bladed fan {good luck trying to locate one of those }.



.
 
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I have researched and all information says you need a 235 fan, the 216 apparently has a tendency to fly apart. I pressed my pulley mount down to make it a short shaft. I had to take off the back plate so the shaft would not move, block the shaft, then press the mount down, then cut off excess shaft. This kit saves a lot of time ($) and is ready to go. I would use it.
 
Short water pump & Harmonic balancer

The short water pump is an easy fit but its important using the harmonic balancer model from a 235 , if posseble from thee same year Your engine whas build. Using a 216 balancer will run to fast and overheat the system. Using the short shaft water pump (235 ci engine) gives the need to tweak the fan 4 blades a bit to get anough distance to radiator core. A five or even 7 blade flex fan blade gives better cooling then only 4! I had some trouble with the inside bearing of a new s.s.pump as everything whas pressed to hard together but its easy to loosen up so it turns smoothly as it should now! Prices for new s.s.pumps variate on the internet.

Martinius.
 
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ol' chebby said:
I have researched and all information says you need a 235 fan, the 216 apparently has a tendency to fly apart. I pressed my pulley mount down to make it a short shaft. I had to take off the back plate so the shaft would not move, block the shaft, then press the mount down, then cut off excess shaft. This kit saves a lot of time ($) and is ready to go. I would use it.
Click to expand...

My water pump had the opposite end of the shaft exposed thru the impeller, so pressing the hub down a half inch was easy. Used a $29.00 water pump from OReilly's MWP 58-128, for a 1955 235. The shorter shaft pump is $100.00 On my 235 there is no back plate to take off either.:) Made this job fairly easy for me.
BTW, Joe, my truck, coincidentally, also has a GMC radiator in it, so I may have a little extra space over some, since I have a shorter Chevy engine. Special circumstance, I think.;)
 
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7 bladed fan

There are some weather environment condition differences between Arizona and norway. You shorely will be in the need of using a ceiling fan when the sun is hot in the dessert. Most People in AR. have airco aswell i`ll gues.

I am not a engineer but these are my own experiences;
An old Chevy truck 4 bladed metal fan does not have the same capacety as a 17 " or 18 " 7 blades flex fan installed on the same 235 CI water pump pulley.I have installed a 7 bladed flex fan on my friends truck and it cools the radiator better he says :)

In general;Air that blows through the front grill towards the radiator will help it cool down when driving at higher speed.
Heated air that is behind the radiator has to be transported away as fast as posseble. The only function of the 7 bladed fan compared to a 4 bladed is a quicker transport of the heated air. Asumed its dia is about the same as the radiator core and centered the 7 blades give better air flow then a 4 bladed fan is my own experience. The blades have different angles and are not semitric in distance in between , at least not the one i have installed.
I think that when installling a shroud in front of the radiator it would help to send the airflow moore directly towords the radiator , but i have not tryed this solution yet ! It would be easy to make one though.

As there are many different kinds and shapes of flex fans its important to ask your dealer what he advices you to use. Engine speed and average weather conditions have an impact on air cooling of the trucks radiator and engine ofcourse.

A healthy radiator core, a good thermostat, open water sirquit block channels are as much important as the fan itself.

Here is an article about belt fan versus el.fan instal in cars and a link in the article to a flex fan dealer in the US.
It will give some information . http://www.flex-a-lite-blog.com/2010/02/27/which-is-better-an-electric-or-belt-driven-fan/

Martinius.
DeadZoneTruckin said:
I don't know where you are getting your info. from Martinius { or if you are just making things up again}
.... but nothing can be farther than the truth..... :rolleyes:

Just like with ceiling fans....LESS blades actually move more air than MORE blades :rolleyes:


http://www.fandiego.com/blog/ceiling-fans-blades-air-flow/



.
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Fans & Cooling

I'm no Engineer but , I've had some good results by adding 7 bladed nylon Datsun fans to my old British nags that came with 4 blade steel fans .

Especially when idling or in slow moving dense traffic .

In my experience , keeping the cooling system in good nick will mean you don't need any fan at all unless you're stationary , this is why I often use electric pusher fans with a temp. switch and relay .

I also think that some fans are less efficient because a good fan is noisier than one that moves less CFM's .

Living in the Desert , I don't care how dang noisy it is as long as it doesn't overheat :rolleyes: .

In the end , looking at that ding - dang nylon Datsun fan on my old MGB GT MKI drove me crazy so I removed and tossed it on the junk pile .

This is a good thread all things considered , I'd like to hear other cooling / fan / etc. opinions .
 
The basic premis is that the air has more time to "settle" or "smooth out" between passes of fan blades, therefore each blade pass moves more "clean" air than turbulent air....like prop wash in an airplane. Most industrial fans are large and 3 bladed.

Also, the profile of the blades will make it move more or less air, make more noise or less. Obviously, more air makes more drag and sound, so they have to find a happy medium between effectivenes and drag/ noise.

Flex fans do this when they flatten out at higher speeds when they are not needed as much.
 
Good explenation

Thanks fore your good explenation Evan. My sons utralight have a 3 bladed prop. wich are a bit alike in shape as the 3 bladed ceiling fans although there are a number of different shapes there to. At high speed the airplain propeller makes much moore noise then at lower speed cause of its shape , lenght and air to be mooved. At lower speed the propeller gets moore quite with less turbulance around the propeller. The noice of a ceiling fan is particulair and rythmic when it rotates at the same speed , remember the swoosh swoosh noise it makes? A stiff 4 bladed truck fan rotates at different speed and will cut the air better at higher speed. Like you said the flex fan flattens out and gets moore efficient and makes less noise at higher speed.

Its intresting watching a modern turbine windmill in the open air when its turned towards the direction of the Wind.It then will produce moore turbulance at high speed. The regulair noice of the blades tells a lot about the air it mooves. The noice will be less at lower speed.

ol' chebby said:
The basic premis is that the air has more time to "settle" or "smooth out" between passes of fan blades, therefore each blade pass moves more "clean" air than turbulent air....like prop wash in an airplane. Most industrial fans are large and 3 bladed.

Also, the profile of the blades will make it move more or less air, make more noise or less. Obviously, more air makes more drag and sound, so they have to find a happy medium between effectivenes and drag/ noise.

Flex fans do this when they flatten out at higher speeds when they are not needed as much.
Click to expand...
 
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