I'm thinking of putting the 3.55 rear gears in but want better stopping first. I'm not sure of putting disc brakes on since I have 15 inch wheels and have read about the rubbing problems. So, I am thinking of just going with a power booster and keeping all drums. Not sure about under floor or under the hood. Any experiences, thoughts, advice, or ideas? Thanks
New Brake setup Hey there You could ask Bilbo to send you some Pictures of his completed setup. I `d bought the same dual brake cylinder like his wich you install at the same location as the original one , but haven`nt installed mine yet. You can decide wether you want to go for the drum/drum or disc/drum solution. It only needs prop. valves extra in case using disc brakes in front. It functions fantastic. You can keep your 15 inches Wheels and Upgrade with the disc brake conversion kit in front , they sell these at Speedway , our host or from Ebay. No rubbing issues with the ones they sell from our host as far as i know . Look at the front disc brake upgrade Damon did With his Sinclair truck. 3.55 in rear is a good choice. Martinius.
Stop I went with the Speedway disc brake conversion kit. You can get it in five or six lug. I got it in five because I put a Camaro rear in my truck. I can't say enough good things about the way the truck stops now. Incredible safety upgrade. I got the master cylinder (basically a '67 Mustang master already set up for front disc,/rear drum) and the master cylinder mounting bracket from our host. No booster so no clearance issues under the floor. As far as wheels go, the stock wheels that came with the truck will not work with the discs, but you said you are running 15" tires so you have probably changed out the wheels already. I used a stock 5 X 4.75" bolt pattern steel wheel common to Chevy's of the 70's. the wheel is 15 X 7 with a 4" backspace and it clears everything just fine. Andy
I will assume I use TF 15 inch rims. I don't go very far. Just want the convenience. Do I need disc brakes, or power booster, or should I improve with the dual reservoir master cylinder. I like the idea of seeing into the reservoir. Thanks for your comments. Dennis
Drums??? I am no stranger to working on drum brakes. However, the drum brakes on my truck gave me fits. I completely rebuilt the entire drum brake system. New EVERYTHING except for the drums themselves. Lines, cylinders, springs, hoses, stock type master, the whole nine yards. Adjust them COUNTLESS times and I still was never certain which way the truck was going to pull when I stepped on the pedal. I was deathly afraid to drive the truck when it was wet and even more afraid to let my oldest son take it for a spin, always telling him, "watch out for the brakes". Now, with the disc up front it's as safe as any modern car with regard to the braking system. I learned how and made my plan from what others on this site did to their trucks. Seriously, get the Speedway kit. Its pretty much a direct bolt in and it's the least expensive disc brake conversion kit out there for these trucks. The only mod I had to do was to remove the steering stop on the passenger side because it hit the caliper. Otherwise it was easy-peasy. Also, I liked the mustang master cylinder because it does not involve trying to shoehorn a booster under the floor. If you just put a booster on the truck, it is still drums all around and my drums gave me fits. Others on this forum may disagree, but I am tickled about this upgrade. I took the truck from Long Island to central Jersey yesterday, cruising (thanks Bill Hanlon) 65 the whole way with my 3.08:1 Camaro rear end, picked up the flathead Ford V8 from my flathead guru for my hot rod project and drove it all the way back with no issues and confident it would stop straight and solid whenever I needed it to. Andy
Manual M/C is fine. I put a booster on mine and it isn't a great improvement. I would have spent the $ on power steering and been better off.
I agree with Russ, 'Ol Chebby'. I have regular master cylinder, front disc, rear drums, and my truck stops great. Probably can find better use for money than power booster. The dual master cylinder is a really important safety feature, in my opinion. The 69-72 Mustang M/C is for front disc/rear drum brakes, and as such, has proper internal residual valves for each.
proportioning valves Bill, I think you mean PROPORTIONING valves, not residual valves. Because the Mustang master cylinder was set high on the firewall in the Mustang, it did not need residual valves built in. The Mustang master does have proportioning for the front disc/rear drum already built in however. I found this out after doing the upgrade to my truck. Since I left the new master in the stock, under the floor position, I have a small issue with the pedal going to the floor only when the truck is parked uphill or occasionally when backing up. I did not install residual valves when I did the upgrade. It is really just an annoyance as the pedal never truly goes all the way to the floor. It just gets pretty spongy until it gets a pump or two to bring it back up, but residual valves are definitely in the future for the truck. These are the residual valves I will be using in my truck because they are made of BRASS, not aluminum like many others. I have heard of problems with the aluminum ones cracking with tightening and corrosion issues for the street as the aluminum ones are supposedly meant for racing. http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/discbrake_kit_components.html Andy
I'm running a suburban master and booster on my 53 with 11 inch drums in the rear and disks up front. The braking is unreal. Pedal effort is minimal and stopping distance is as short as I can modulate.
OK Guys... For OldBlueTruck, I'd get the master cylinder for disc/drum, regardless if you're gonna get discs right away or wait 'till later, (or not at all). All you have to do is put a 10# Residual valve in the line to front brakes until you change to discs. If you get the drum/drum M.C. you'll have to change out the whole M.C. when you go to front discs as the discs require more fluid volume to operate properly, thus the larger reservoir, (and cylinder bore) for disc brakes... Andy, Back in 1970, I went to a brake school conducted by EIS Brakes. In that school, the instructor indicated that the proper rebuild kit had to include the residual. valves for drum or disc, accordingly. I have been unable to document this information, though. New and improved brake stuff may overwrite some or all of that. The logic behind residual valves is thus: When you let off the brakes, with drum brakes, the springs pull back the brake shoes from the drum to release pressure. The wheel cylinders can suck air during retraction. Without a residual pressure of 10#, the springs can sometimes pull back the drums too far which necessitates pumping the brakes to get good pedal when first applied. With disc brakes, there are no springs to pull the pads away from the disc, so it takes only 2# to keep the pads 'at the ready' for the next application. The residual valves, also serve as anti-siphon valves to keep the brake lines at the ready when parking on non-level ground, as Andy has mentioned. Forgive me if I've detailed stuff you already knew...
Thanks to all. I have bendix brakes all around now with a standard master cylinder. It stops fine with the original gears. I believe installing a dual cell master cylinder would be a safety feature. Does a power booster do much? Won't this setup stop fine?
I went the dual master cylinder route with a brake proportioning valve, see lower right corner of picture. Haasman
Manual is fine. There seems to be a little confusion as to what is what. Residual valves keep a certain amount of pressure at the wheel cylinder so you don't have to pump up brakes every time. The proportioning valve gives bias to the front brakes to improve stopping and control. Prop valves can be built in to the M/C but may not be.
So.... The dual cell master cylinder set up for front disc brakes come with a proportioning valve. It has a 10# pressure valve to the rear for drum brakes and a 2# pressure valve to the front for the discs. These valves cost about $13.00. Can't a person replace the front 2# pressure valve with a 10# pressure valve and keep the 4 wheel brake drum set up until a decision is made to leave it alone or put discs on? In my case, all the lines, brake cylinders, shoes, springs and other things associated, drums are new. I even have a new master cylinder. But, believe changing the master cylinder is safer and will give me peace. I believe this is what I read Again, thanks to all. Dennis
Most front disk brake calipers require more fluid movement to apply the brakes than a front drum brake would require. Therefore, many (all?) dual chamber master cylinders designed for front disks/rear drums have a larger piston size in the front brake circuit than in the rear brake circuit. Using one of these disk/drum master cylinders on a drum/drum truck MAY supply quite a bit more fluid to the front drums than to the rear drums, causing the front drum brakes to do a lot more work while the rear brakes do very little.
Dennis See post #9 in this thread and read it again. You can NOT use a 10 lb. residual pressure valve as a proportioning valve. They are two different animals and do different things. A proportioning valve attenuates fluid going TOWARDS the wheels. A residual pressure valve attenuates fund going AWAY from the wheels. And do NOT use the $13.00 aluminum residual pressure valves on a street truck. Also see post #9 on this thread. Andy
I am working on this. And trying to understand. Please be patient with me. I need the help. OK. I thought I understood that - with my current set up with 4 drum brakes - I could buy the under floor dual cylinder master cylinder with attachment bracket for the front disc/rear drums (it has the proportion valve for this set up) and it would work if I replaced the front residual valve to accommodate the use of front drums. This set up comes wit 2 lb. valves on the front and 10 lb. valves on the back. So, I would need to replace the front 2 lb. valve with a 10 lb. valve and it would work. Now. In the future if I want to convert my front drum brakes to disc brakes I would change the 10 lb. residual valve (to the front) with the 2 lb. residual valve. Is this right? Thanks, Dennis
Nope, but you're getting there. You still are trying to use the residual pressure valve as a proportioning valve. It will not work that way. You cannot use a front disc/rear drum master on a 4 wheel drum setup. Period. The residual pressure valve will do nothing to properly proportion the fluid on that setup. Remember, the proportioning valve distributes fluid proportionally TOWARDS the wheels. A residual pressure valve prevents fluid from draining AWAY from the wheels. Therefore, a residual pressure valve will NOT do what you think or want it to do. If you want to replace the under floor master with a dual reservoir master cylinder but also want to retain the four wheel drum setup, you will have to find a dual reservoir master that is already set up for four wheel drum brakes. You cannot use a front disc/rear drum master in that application. Andy
