Hi Would this be a good alternative compared with the MSD blaster 2 coil when upgrading with Deves HEI module kit? Does anyone here have any experience with this Ebay seller and there products ? They get there nameless coils from overseas they say spesial made for KMJ and are most likely made in China ? Which does not mean it have to be bad quality, but are they reliable and of good quality ? KMJ coil EBAY AD: Black 12V Round Oil Filled Canister Style Electronic Ignition Coil 45,000 Volts | eBay B.T.W. i found this statement FROM MSD forum , done by Russell Stephens , President MSD Ignition El Paso, TX . China? Martinius.
I do not have any experience with KMJ, but if they have the same spec's the advantage of them would be you do not have to repaint the coil so it looks original. Many of the parts for the HEI are made in China. The proof is in how they perform and so far, Chinese components are not causing any problems. It does not surprise me MSD 8202's are made in China. Most people in the USA have been sleeping for the past 16 years and didn't realize 80% of what they thought was made in the USA is not.
RE : ignition coils ~ Oil filled is the cheaper typ, I prefer epoxy filled as they're vibration resistant . Remember to match the impedance with the power you're going to use ! . FWIW, the coil won't deliver more voltage than is required . A good NAPA Echlin or yellow Accell coil is all you'll ever need . Focus on getting some sort of breakerless ignition as that'll improve the spark and allow you to open up the sparkplug gaps wider so the engine will start easier ot or cold, idle stronger, be more powerful, better fuel economy and so forth . I've been experimenting with Chinese made "Ignitor" typ points replacements on my oldies, using the stock ignition coils and so far so good ~
Good info Nate. BTW, YOU need to try my HEI setup. The instructions are all on my website and its not that hard to do yourself if you are allergic to spending $174.50 plus shipping. Knowing you, you will want to just put the reluctor pickup right down on the deck (no need to make a plate). I imagine you being able to do this in about an hour and then never going back to women ..errrr points! HEI for your 216/235/261
Sounds good but I only have a modern ThinWall i6 right now, I slapped the not much liked '75 ~ '77 Delco factory HEI dizzy and separate coil on it and opened the plugs up to .070" zoom-zoom now .
Thanks Nate and Deve. Need to update my knowledge about car electricity more . Impedance between the MSD 8202 coil and Accel 8145 coil is not much different i see but i want someone to explain the small differences and what it does with the current float or resistance inside the coil ? Both are oil filled. MSD values are max 45000 volt , Primary resistance 0.7 ohms , sec. resistance 4.7 ohms Accel values are max 45000 volt , primary resistance 0.7 ohms, sec. resistance 10.8 ohms Pertronix Flametrower 2 is also an epoxy filled model . They advice them for offroad driving ? 45000 volts , 0.6 ohms primary resistance. In combination with Deves HEI kit presuming engine timing is sett right how would each of them coils work technically ? ? Martinius.
12.10 Hi Martinus ; I'm still learning about ignition coils and primary resistance too ~ the Accel coil I used on my Russian Ural Moto was .06 Ohm and my experience tells me that's too little for a direct 12 volt power feed . Nevertheless it is still working fine after 20,000 miles, the original contact points work just fine and require no adjusting so there's something about these higher end coils I don't yet understand .
The secondary resistance is something I do not know much about. But primary resistance is important to be sure you are not creating a condition where you have too many amps and too much heat buildup for the setup you have. The HEI has current limiting so to a point primary resistance doesn't matter. .6 or .7 ohm coils are fine. .3 is too much and can overheat the heat sink behind the module. But the TRUTH is, you can run a 1940's 6 volt coil with 1.5 ohm resistance and the engine will still run (HEI). It is not balanced, but it does still idle. But when you spend all that money on HEI, you want those E3 spark plugs, performance wires and 45kv spark to burn all of the gas in the cylinder and get the most out of the system. Nothing bad happens if you try a different coil as long as you observe polarity. One of the reasons I have a test engine is so I can test all of this stuff to see what happens. I haven't blown myself up yet! The thing about coils is, they take time for the induction process. Cylinder fires (usually about 12kv for a conventional points system) and once it has fired, it needs to charge up to fire the next cylinder. Of course this happens fast, but not fast enough in a conventional system to attain 45,000 volts. Even the nicest hottest coil you can find will only fire about 12,000 volts because of Time. When they developed HEI, they found a way through circuitry to reduce dramatically that Time. This is why we use 45kv coils with HEI. Because we CAN. Best explanation of this I have found is the Hemmings Article on my website. There are more sites that explain this in detail. Part of the problem with conventional ignition systems Time issue was the Resistance circuit. (Ballast Resistor and higher ohm coil.)
Thanks Deve for your feedback and the link to the article. This explains the way how each of the components work individually and the way the engine responds optimal when the high voltage coil , the HEi and proper ignition function perform a well running smooth engine. I am still questioning if the 235 six inline will get a better gas milage and how big the Hei setup difference is versus a standard points setup ? Thank you for the tech. advices Martinius.
I was skeptical too. So much so that I spend a great deal of time testing all the configurations for ignition systems I could think of. I didn't have a Pertronix so didn't test that. But all you have to do is check out the main HEI article and all of the data is there for you to see. The testing starts near the bottom of the article.
I put Deve's HEI solution on my 228 GMC engine. The engine was in very good tune before I installed the HEI. I cannot say that I noticed any change in either performance or mileage since changing to HEI, but I do know from past experience that the HEI system will maintain proper performance over time while a points-based system will deteriorate over the typical 10,000 mile lifetime of the points. The additional high RPM voltage available from the HEI system probably never comes into play in my case, as I never turn my 228 over about 2800-3000 RPM.
It's pretty much impossible to compare before (installation of HEI) and after since we have the age old problem of exact testing using in-exact procedure. When you test before installation, how many gallons did you run? (exactly to the ounce), then what are your driving habits in each test? What altitude changes (hills, etc) were included? Did you drive the very same route in the very same way? As you can see, impossible to know. Even when the vehicle shifts gears has to be the same. This is why I used a test engine using ounces of gas over time at specific RPMs with barometric pressure, temperature, load, voltage, O2 sensor data, everything the same for all tests. What does this mean? It means Bill is right! The differences in all of my tests are so close that it very well may not be noticeable. But when someone asks if you get better gas mileage, the answer is yes based on my testing using proven laboratory procedure. Over a year you may save a few gallons depending on how much you drive it. As far as performance, again, if the cylinder fires properly then on the surface you cannot ask for more than that. But, it burns cleaner and more completely with HEI which all in itself is improved performance. This is because the 45kv coil is firing hotter at all RPM's. The biggest performance gain I am hearing back (from the over 100 guys who have this that I know of) is at higher RPM due to the HEI's ability to adjust the dwell instantly based on RPM. I also hear that it provides improved low end torque, but I cannot prove that. I would say that as a veteran old truck enthusiast, for me its a game changer because I have spent so much time adjusting points, timing, etc to get my trucks 'just right'. Not having to do any of that anymore is a huge time saver allowing me to concentrate on other things. So from a reliability standpoint, its HEI. From a tinkering standpoint, HEI. Can you say once you have HEI there is a better ignition system out there? No, HEI is as good as it gets for these engines. All that is left now is EFI and I am asking the right people the right questions to see if that is a feasible concept, but I am so far on the fence over it. This is good thread for those interested in HEI. As Bill states, it is not just a wildly huge improvement that turns your 6 banger into a V8. It's much more subtle than that. Anyone who has rudimentary tools can make this themselves with my How-To Article for the cost of parts. I encourage everyone who feels they can to give it a try. It's FUN!
Especially diesel trucks and cars with a turbo have many emission sensors to inform the ECU that has to stay inside the norm of not polluting to much. All new cars and trucks in EU countries are controlled by road inspection authorities before they enter the road . Not the classic cars ( 30 years and older) as they have there own rules system . The world wide scandal with Volkswagen (DE) 2 years ago was that they computerised these sensors to manipulate the engine ECU . The result is that these cars and trucks give in reality more pollution then shown on the computer screen. This according to EU pollution standards . The guy from Top Gear Jeremy Clarkson said after words that a lot more car producing factories did that with the same purpose as Volkswagen and that they where not the only factory that..... My son told me that when using the right specific software and engine hardware how easy it is to manipulate modern engines. He showed me how to manipulate (by pass ) the ECU of a series 5 BMW with a diesel turbo engine . The results are amazing when opening up the blocking devices. Yes although this particular diesel turbo engine gives more pollution , it has less problems with carbonisation of the nozzles and manifold over time and gives around 20 more HP with updated better nozzles which i think is very positive in total terms. Engine carbonisation is a big problem for diesel and gas engines and in worst case scenario it can kill your engine , specially when using bad quality diesel or gas fuel or fuel containing ethanol over longer periods . I am not shore how an old fashion chevy six would work together with a ECU ? Installing a EFI system would maybe be possible but difficult , not to say installing a turbo to the engine which is possible of course , but after my opinion not really the best tech. solution for these old sixes ! What is EFI and how does it help my car? This thread is fun as it accumulates so many interesting thoughts . Thanks Martinius.
Installing EFI using throttle body injection if fairly easy in today's world. Besides the injection system (with its self learning ECU) pretty much all you need is O2 sensor(s) in the exhaust stream and a distributor that the ECU can control. Just co$t$ lots of drachmas, yen, rubles or EURs. Evan could probably give you hints about what pieces to use.
