Ok, I'm still working on smoothing this thing out. '54 3600 with a '55 235 with automatic choke. I'm getting spark to all cylinders, carb is adjusted to factory specs (2 1/2 turns) and the timing is set "by ear", i.e. I haven't put a light to it yet, but I got it as close to the sweet spot as I could. I've got good oil pressure and temp is warm and steady at idle. The problem is it's still missing. Further, by pulling spark plug cables while it's running, I've determined that cylinders 1, 3 and 4 are not firing as there is no noticeable change in the sound of the motor when I pull their wires. Now, the carb and timing may not be dead nuts on, but I believe they are close enough that it should run smoother than this. I'll do a compression test next, but until then, am I on the right track? Are there any known issues with these motors that this would indicate?
Hey Chick, Aren't you the guy with the shaky/sloppy distributer? If so, that may be throwing you off. Do a static timing if you have no light. Bring the number one cylinder to near top on compression stroke and align ball on flywheel to pointer. Take off cap and make sure rotor is pointing to number one cylinder wire. If not, re-do the wires in proper firing order. Loosen hold-down clamp on distributer and with key turned ON, rotate distributer clockwise a bit and then counter-clockwise slowly until you see the points spark. Stop there. Your engine is timed. Turn off key, tighten the hold-down clamp, fire it up and make fine adjustment with timing light. don't forget to adjust points to 33 degrees with a dwell meter. You can still buy them if you look hard enough (Sears). check your firing order for improperly positioned wires. However, If your distributer is truly really sloppy you are going to have a tough time. If you replace it, be careful to make sure it is seated ALL the way in to engage the oil pump or else BAD things will happen. Andy
Chick ; It sounds like maybe mixed up firing order ? the firing order is easy to remember : think about women : 1 , 5 , 3 , 6 , 2 , 4 15 is too young 36 is too old 24 is just right Please to remember , the # 1 thing to do in a tune up is: adjust the valves , they're always tight ~ if this engine has been sitting a long time , the valves may be sticking , fil a pump oiler with ATF and squirt it on the valve stems between the springs . Spark plugs must be gapped to .035" , they rarely are out of the box nor by the last guy who touched your engine .
Yep, I'm the one with the dist. doing the jig, but it doesn't move at idle, so I figured that wasn't bothering it. Also, I unplugged the vacuum line and plugged it, and that didn't seem to make any difference. The wires are in the correct order around the cap, but I haven't verified that they start in the right place. I'll give that a go. As long as I'm getting oil pressure, I should be good on the distributor seating, right?
I'm pretty sure the firing order is right. The wire's are in the correct order on the cap, but maybe not at the right starting point. I'll check the valves and plugs. I thought this was a rebuilt motor that was put in here, but it was just pulled from another car, so who knows how long it sat or what was done to it.
Determining #1 Cyl. TDC O.K.Clayton ; Remove rockerbox (if the oil cap is at the front just remove it and peer in) , look in the little wondow above the starter and rotate the engine in it's running direction , as the intake valve closes , you should see a triangle or chevron apear in the window , stop it in line with the pointer and remove the dizzycap ~ the # 1spark plug wire sould line up with the rotor tip at this point . if not ,remove and re-install so it does , re - time it and try again .Yes , if you have oil pressure , the oil pump drive tang is correctly lined up , I use a bent up coat hanger to align it . There's an old , more detailed post on proper dizzy installation and alignment if this isn't sufficiently detailed....
I'll give this a try tonight...hopefully that's all it is. The cap, rotor points and condenser look new, so I'm hoping the PO just installed them incorrectly or never got around to tuning it up. I'm not sure that I want to deal with a rebuild at this point.
Just to be clear, where is the #1 cylinder on the motor? On the front, near the radiator or on the back, near the firewall?
Okay, I got the timing set by hand. It's probably not perfect, but I believe it's close enough that it should run pretty smoothly as long as everything else is right. So, I'm left with two problems: 1) It's still missing. I've got spark to all cylinders, but I think only 3 are firing (or producing any power, whichever the case). Could this be caused by stuck valves? Will it be obvious which valves are stuck if I rotate the engine by hand with the valve cover off? 2) I've got intermittent vacuum to the vacuum advance mechanism. Could this be related to stuck valves?
Stuck valves If you have stuck valves, hopefully they are stuck open. Does the engine, when running make any kind of loud slapping noise? If not, valves should be OK. Check the compression of the cylinders. You should have close to 130# give or take on each one. Dead giveaway if you have a stuck or burned valve. If you suspect a stuck valve, remove the rocker arm cover and soak the valves with something like Marvel Mystery oil and let it sit for a couple of days. Check the spark plug wires too, both cold and hot to see if they are working properly. Check the distributor cap for cracks. Just thinking out load here. Maybe something will work.
I was just about to post that I do hear a slapping noise coming from under the valve cover. I took the cover off to set the timing manually and turned the engine over several times by hand. None of the valves were completely stuck (i.e. they all opened and closed). Could it be that they aren't stuck but just aren't returning quickly enough to keep up with the rocker arm, which would still cause the slapping? Like gummed up but not stuck? The dist. cap and wires look fine and seem to be operating normally. I will check the compression tomorrow. If I can get good compression at a slow cranking speed, I will try the mystery oil. I've used that stuff (well, Lucas Oil, but same stuff) before on a smoky engine and it did wonders.
Solved! Finally got it straightened out. Nate, you're the man, the valves were all screwed up. Got the book out and bought myself a feeler gauge. I got the engine warm, pulled the valve cover and set all the intake valves to .010" and all the exhaust valves to .020" as per the owner's manual (which, incidentally, conflicts with the shop manual). Buttoned everything up, fired it up. We set the timing and now the thing runs like a sewing machine. It fixed the intermittent vacuum, as well, so I'm out $30 for the new vacuum advance, but oh well. Man, it sounds sweet!! Checked the compression in the process, and it's not great, but it will do fine for me. Between 90-100 on 4 cylinders, 120 on one and close to 150 on the last one. Thanks to everyone for the help. I've worked on a lot of cars but the vacuum advance and valve adjustments are a new one on me. Now I know.
Good News Clayton ; I am glad you got it sorted out , remember the valves will close up again ere long so drive it as much as you can and re-adjust as needed in 50 ~ 100 miles , sooner if you develop a miss @ hot idle . Keep an eye out for a Dwell Tachometer at yard sales , they're usually under $20.00 , this tool will allow really close point adjustments for better starting , smoother idle etc. . 90 # on that cylinder isn't terribly low , it may well come back up as you drive it and the valve beds in again , this is whyyou've usually gotta do a couple - three valve adjustments before they stabilize plus , you're supposed to check and adjust them when the engine is hot not just warm . Search the archives for " Throttle Ping Test " and use that to fine tune your ignition timing , you'll be surprised at how much better it'll run .
