THE FRONT SHAFT IS ABOUT 1/2 LONGER THEN THE 3 SPEED I TOOK OUT THE PLACE I BOUGHT IT SAID IT WOULD WORK ITS GOING INTO A 283 ANYONE HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE WITH CHANGING A 3 SPEED TO A 5 SPEED.
I FOUND THIS ON THE NET IT MIGHT HELP YOU OUT I see so many questions on installing S-10 T-5 transmissions into old trucks I thought I'd write down my experience and offer it as tech reference. The tricky parts of this swap are putting together a clutch package and finding the right ratio's tranny for your purpose. The one you want for your truck should be from a 2 WD S-10 as the shifter in these variants is located nearest the front. It will locate the shifter about seven inches behind the stock 4 speed . Other variants will locate the shifter in the bench seat. You can use another variant and change the shifter location by bolting the tail shaft housing from an S-10 to it. The shifter is part of this housing so it will be located in the S-10 position. This seems to be your only option if you want a close ratio box from a V-8. The close ratio uses a 2.95 first gear and is best if you want performance set up. 2.95 is what the stock three speed uses for first in the '50. The info I got from the Chevy dealer shows 2 ratios available from '85 to '90 in the S-10 though there may be others. ML2 code in the glove box is 4.03 first and 2.37 second. ML3 is 3.76 first and 2.18 second. I use an S-10 box with a 4.03 first. 4.03 is great for occasional steep driveways or creeping in a field However, it will not give you a great launch if you want to do stoplight competition. Another option is a box with 3.55 first gear. To me this seems to be in-between the two and a compromise but I have heard some say they like it with a 3.73 rear. I prefer a 3.90 rear which will cruise 65 at 2100 RPM but will also pull hills OK in OD at 50.. Also watch your OD ratios. Most are .72 but best to mark the input and output shafts and count revolutions. An early box with mechanical speedo is a plus. I hear it's very expensive to change from electronic to mechanical speedo drive. I find S-10 box's plentiful for $50 to $100 at swaps but the V-8 variants with 2.95 first seem to run more, around $200. Junkyards are very expensive places to get these. If time is on your side, shop around. Penny saver type papers are also a good source. After, or preferably before you purchase, it's good to take a peek inside before you install. You can't just pop a cover off to inspect these, it requires you pull off the tail shaft housing and shifter to get the top cover off. As long as you're doing this you may as well at least re-shim the end play off the main shaft. They use tapered roller bearings and any end play will result in sloppy bearing clearance as in sideways play. One might consider bearings and synchro's at this time also. Instructions are in Chilton's at your local library. Also good time to change the speedo drive gear if necessary. You might not have to do this if you're using a 3.73 or taller rear but I did with the 3.90. The S-10 used only one drive gear (9 teeth I think) but I found the Camaro T-5 had the right gear. I used GM P/N 14071731 (7 teeth drive gear) and 14077086 (driven gear) for my ratio of 3.90 and tire size of 28.8 inches. This will vary for different applications. Also remove the C-clip from the rear of the output shaft. I don't know the purpose of it but found it interfered when I used a particular drive shaft; could not slide it far enough forward to install. Some simple mods will need to be done to the tranny. Ream or drill the 4 mounting holes to open them up from the metric size to half inch. You will notice the input shaft, the pilot part of the shaft and the front bearing retainer are longer than the stock tranny's. I cut about 1/4 of an inch off the pilot to match the stock one. This still leaves the overall length of the shaft a little long but was not a problem. You can drive the pilot bushing in further if it does interfere. I also cut the bearing retainer to match one from a stock tranny. I found the tricky part was putting a clutch package together. Notice the splines are shorter than your stock tranny. They are also different size and number. S-10's are likely 1 inch 14 teeth, V-8 boxes are fine spline. Mine was 1 inch 14 so I used a 11 inch flywheel and an 85 Astro Van 11 inch disc with a pressure plate from a small block. Used a throw out bearing from an SB but for a cast iron fork. Use the stock fork and clutch linkage. This setup put me within about .100 of running out of clutch splines on the input shaft. Enough to dis-engage but barely. I think if I ran out of splines I would have ground down the clutch disc hub a little. This is a gray area and I recommend setting everything up without a pressure plate installed so you can see what's going on for clearance. I found some Astro Van discs very different from others. Any other make disc could work as long as it matches your input shaft and is the right thickness. The gearbox is a couple inches longer than the stock one so you will need a shorter drive shaft. For my 50 with the 55 rear I found an Astro Van shaft fit perfectly with a Napa 348 cross over U joint for the rear. Again, this may vary for your application. Also needed a longer speedo cable. I've run the T-5's and Saginaws with no trans mount several thousand miles with no problems, the trucks mount on the bell housing. It did however make me nervous with aluminum case sticking so far out in space so I fabricated a cross member from the original truck's cross member. I cut and welded a recessed pocket in it, also cut and welded in tubes where the bolts pass through the vertical part of the cross. I bolted the mount to the tranny first and then slid the cross under it and bolted it on. Again perhaps not necessary but makes me feel better. Most people at shows think I have a stock 4 speed. I used a 4 speed shifter welded onto the S-10 shifter. This does make for a long throw but I've heard of people reoperating the shifter pivot to address this. I acquired a Hurst after market shifter with a short throw I plan on installing. With the T-5 I can cruise 65 at 2100 rpm and still pull hills at 50 without having to shift out of OD. . I don't hesitate to drive to a show or vacation hundreds of miles away. 65 to 70 is about all I feel comfortable doing in the truck and I still prefer a##### highway to the interstate. Ratios are a gray area of this article. I make recommendations based on what I like and others may prefer different ratios depending on geographic location, engine, cam, how you plan on driving, towing, importance of gas mileage vs. performance. This is not a straight forward install, particularly the clutch and beginners may not want to tackle this swap. Rick tech2@chevyduty.com
Rick, Your advice on the installation of an s-10 five speed was very informative. How difficult is it to fit a Muncie 4-spd (M-21) in place of a stock 3-spd unit? (1965 Chevy C-10) Is it too long, or will everything end up in the right place? Is $300 a fair price for a Muncie in decent condition? I am just a beginner and I am just wondering how to go about this project. Thanks. M.C.
First the m-21 is a bolt in. You may have to change the clutch though.but there's a even better option<depending on your budget> have you considered a 6 speed?if you can locate a 93-97 camaro z-28 or a trans-am/formula/gta in your local wrecking yard and get the complete trans/shifter assemblies this is a feasable swap. Mcloed industries can help you with their custom hydraulic clutch master/slave-throwout bearing assemblies.you will also need the rear mount style transmission crossmember from a 71-72 1/2 ton p/u . you will have to drill new holes in the frame to mount it in the proper location in relation to the mounting point on the trans.also,it will require the skills of a experienced welder/fabricator<check your area for shops that can accomodate your needs>to make a custom mount stand to mate to the transmission mounting point.the f-body cars utilize a torque arm that extends from the tailhousing to the rearend.check with richmond transmissions for help with converting the electric vehicle speed sensor to read mechanically<so you can retain your original speedometer,if you choose to do so>again,this is a accomplishable swap with a little research,just about anything chevy has built with a v8 can somehow be swapped around with mryiad transmission choices abound!the sky's the limit,check into it.6 forward gears with a 3:73.1 rear gear would be phenomanal!it's been done in other chevys,cars and trucks alike<not to mention all the other GM brethren as well>so it could be done to yours as well!
