Well, we're 1200 or so miles into Midnight Rose's break in, and so far the only hickup I've found is that my cooling system isn't up for these 114 degree temps in Vegas, especially in stop and go traffic. We put in a new heavy duty copper radiator when we did the build, along with a 16" electric fan. Seems like the relay or connections to the relay failed about 50 mile outside of our destination, and I spent a good part of the next day trying to find a replacement fan, as I made the assumption that was the part at fault...didn't have a probe to check power there. Also did not have an overflow installed, as the neck on the radiator did not have a tube to attach one. Spent another better part of the day searching for a bona fide radiator shop here that could solder me on one...finally did find one, and at least got an overflow tank in place. Still, with the fan blowing constantly, I get warm within 10-15 minutes of driving in this heat...quicker if I have the AC on, as it's extracting the cab heat and dumping it into the radiator. Been able to get by by not using the AC here, and stopping to let her cool if she gets over 235 or so. The best I can tell, both the original and this replacement fan are rated at around 1500 cfm. I'm thinking that if I could find a high-output one, it may fix the problem. Any thoughts on that? I also added a bottle of that water "slicker" that is supposed to make water transfer the heat better...have heard some sware by it, but it didn't seem to really make a difference. Anyone have any other thoughts??? Other than that, she's running fine and getting lots of smiles and thumbs up on the strip, and the seats are actually quite comfortable...neither one of us felt too tired or stiff from 10-12 hour drives. Will be pointing her north again Tuesday...
what degree thermostat are you running currently?Might wish to try a 190-195° this will keep the water in the block longer possibly giving the fan some time to cool the radiator down some..
You mentioned a "heavy duty radiator". If you have a radiator that has an extra thick core, it can cause you cooling problems at low speeds because you are not able to get the air to flow fast enough through the core to cool it down. Also it is better to have a electric fan pull the air through the radiator that it is to push it. A aluminum radiator will also cool better than a copper radiator cause aluminum will dissipate the heat faster. I use a aluminum 2" core radiator on both my 54 and 61 chevy trucks and the 54 with a flex fan never gets hot and the 61 with a electric fan which is set up to run all the time has trouble staying up to running temp unless I am driving on the highway at cruising speed. Both trucks have AC. One more thing and I'm sure you already know this, is it's gonna run a little hotter until it breaks in.... Good luck with your problem Spika....Big Tim
Desert Cooling Bummer , that . The Watter Wetter does indeed work very well . I also agree on the hotter thermostat as the coolant can circulate through the block too fast & not pick up enough heat . If the fan has those stupid ribs to prevent retards from jamming their fingers in the blades , use needle pliers to remove them and it'll not only increase the air flow but it'll be quieter . Pusher / puller , works the same , I'm amazed this old wives tale persists , it's 100 % B.S. (7th grade physics , I failed 'em too) .
Pusher / puller... How do you know it's BS Nate? Did you conduct a survey? Sometimes I think you're an old wife. For one, if you are running an AC condenser in front of your radiator then it would stand to reason and make good sense even if you are in the 7Th grade to use a puller fan with a shroud so that you can completely cover the radiator core. This would pull air through the whole radiator. Since you are supposed to leave a gap between the condenser and the radiator so that the air can flow around the condenser and in between it and the radiator it would be rather difficult to get a pusher fan to direct all the air through the radiator to cool it down. Also lets not forget that there could be a Trans. cooler too. So back to what I originally said, it is better to use a puller than a pusher. You see Nate, not only did I not dismiss your thoughts as "total BS," and a "old wives tail" I offered an intelligent explanation as to why the "puller fan" is better than the "pusher fan" I also proved my point by driving my 61 today with a 400 plus HP small block, AC condenser, Trans. cooler, shrouded "PULLER FAN", 180 degree thermostat, recovery tank and aluminum 2 row core radiator in 100 plus degree weather at low speeds as well as getting on it and running it up to 6500 RPM's a couple of times and the Temp gauge never got over half way. So I say to you Nate, rather than take a pair of wire cutters and cut the finger guards out of a pusher fan and make it look like a worked over piece of S#$T why not do the job right the first time and avoid all problems all together? I love having these looooooong winded debates with you Nate....Thank you...Big Tim
Thanks for the input, guys. Temperture was way down today...not sure it even broke a hundred, and the cooling system was quite adequate. As for pusher/puller, I am pulling it through. I'm not sure how much space we left between the ac and engine core...can't see where that would be a contributing problem if it were too close, as the fan drawing air through needs to pull through both if its operating properly. Like I said, I'm pretty sure the two different fans I've used were both in the 1500-1650 cfm range. I see there's a speed shop right down the road from me here that advertises a Zirgo fan that's rated at 3000 and one at 3630, both 16" fans. If that rating is correct, I would think that could make a quite a difference in my cooling. This is a brass double core radiator...the second core should allow for twice the heat dissipation from the added square inches of heat extraction fins. If I can move adequate air through those to remove the heat from the fins, we should be in business I would think. Yes, it does have a built in transmission oil cooler as well, which can certainly be adding a bit to the load. So...in the morning, as soon as I crawl outta bed (it's 3:30 here now...just finished contributing to the renovation fund at the local blackjack joint) I'll swing by there and see if they have anything in stock that I can install for the trip back home. If not, we may need to have the warm desert air in our hair until we get far enough north to see the temps back in the 90s or lower to where we may be able to fire up the AC again. One more story of interest...after the first boilover and subsequent stopping to let it cool, I started hearing a very disturbing "ticking" sound. Obviously, my first thoughts were I had done some significant damage to the 383 by letting it get too hot. Still, I recalled that headers usually tend to loosen up a bit after installation. First chance I got I broke out an open end wrench and popped the hood...sure enough, all the header bolts were worked out a bit...enough to let exhaust escape, and give the tell-tale sound. Once they were snugged up again, she sounds just fine. Scared me for a minute, tho...
AC Condensor It is supposed to have at least 3/4" clearance between it and the radiator however zi've never seen one yet from the factory on any vehicle so spaced out and thet always seem O.K. . I always make sure there's a 1/2' gap but then I rarely add AC . I'm sure you know you can turn the heater on when it begins getting warm ? . What is a " double core " radiator ? if it's only two rows of tubes , I hope they're really wide tubes or it's too small . The stock radiator has three rows of tubes and will cool a 500" Caddy engine with AC and tranny cooler , no problem . I'm hoping you've checked the full advance ignition timing ? this can be a problem if it's too far advanced . What % mix of coolant / water are you running ? .
Yea, looking at the core yesterday, the mount it came with spaced it about 3/4" or so away from the radiator core. The radiator is the "desert cooler" version for towing and heavy duty V8 apps from our host... http://www.classicparts.com/1947-54-Radiator-Desert-Cooler/productinfo/78-211/ I meant to say it was the double "4 row" core for heavy applications. Should be more than adequate I would think- As for the heater...yea, I had it pulling as much heat as I could off when I was desparate, but at 114 degrees, you can't roll the windows down far enough to stay inside for long with it dumping more engine heat into the cab. Did find, though, that it did make a difference if the AC was not running, but still not enough to keep it from over heating in time. And yea, I did fiddle with the timing some. I did notice a bit of a detination knock on acceleration indicating I may be a bit too far advanced, so I retarded in small steps, clear to the point where it did not run well at all from being too far retarded (the timing, not me). Didn't seem to make a difference that I could tell on the gauges, but I did get it set where it ran OK but the knock was gone. Did go to highest octane gas as well, for what that's worth. Running an original mix of 50/50 antifreeze, then added a bottle of the "water wetter". After another boilover when my overflow hose popped off and I dumped more out, I added just straight water and another wetter bottle, so I'm probably only 20/80 now. Anyhow...the 2800 cfm fan was an improvement, but still not enough, which surprised me. So...I said I'm gonna fix this thing once and for all; pulled the sheet metal off to get access to the front of the radiator and mounted one of my first 1600 cfm fans on the front, reconfigured to push air through the AC, somewhat lower centerline than the engine-side one, and wired them in to run together. That did the trick. We're moving some serious air now, and the temp has not gotten above or even close to what I suspect is the 235° mark yet. In visiting with a few folks down in the Vegas area, they all relayed that cooling is a huge issue for the folks running older or street rod vehicles...they all struggle with getting adequate cooling capacity. While I may not be back down there with this rig again, I should be well prepared for the hottest weather I'm likely to run into pretty much anywhere now. Other than the cooling issue, everything performed very well. Lots of thumbs up from people along the way, and yes, the seats were incredibly comfortable. We were sitting in them from 8AM yesterday until 1AM this morning, and no back aches or stiff necks. I'm very happy with them...
"NOT ENOUGH AIR FLOW" The thicker radiator cores will cool better but only at higher speeds. Low speeds can actually cause an adverse affect. You just proved this by putting 2 fans on, a pusher and a puller. Use Nascar as an example, they run thick cores but are also going over 100 MPH all the time and they don't get hot. Also they run aluminum cores cause aluminum will dissipate the heat faster than brass. Because aluminum dissipates heat faster you can run a thinner core which will help move air faster at lower speeds and keep the engine running cooler. The 2 rows of 1" tubing aluminum core radiator with a shrouded puller fan and recovery tank will cool a 400 HP engine and the 2 row with 1 1/4" tubing will cool up to 600 HP. This is what thy claim in the catalogs, I've tried it and it works....Big Tim
Next one I build will probably have an aluminum one. When you add the AC in front of the 4 row engine cooling core, it does add up to a lot of resistance to be pulling through. I do not have a shroud on this either...actually have never seen an electric fan using a shroud, but I know that would improve the efficiency of the airflow considerably. Thing is...they're not really available off the shelf to fit this very well, and they're a bit tough to fabricate in the field. I think I'll be making an aluminum one to put on here now that I'm back at the shop, and I expect that to make a quite a difference.
Re:Challenged Yep this is gonna sound far-fetched, but the AC condensors on most vehicles need a different location rather than in front of the radiator. If you recall, Porsches had the condensor located in the whale tail. Maybe incorporate it into the outside sunvisor,LMAO.
Go to the Summit catalog, they offer all kinds of different electric cooling fans with shrouds and in all kinds of sizes like the one in the pictures I have posted....
I think this is the one I ended up with in Vegas... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HFM-ZFB16S/ Seems to be a good fan, but still not quite enough on its own for the 110°+ temps there. Perhaps if I would have been able to couple it with a shroud it would have been fine. Curiously, Summit jumps from 1939 to 1955 on their application filter, so you aren't able to find one specially fitted to the size and shape of this radiator. Not saying I can't build one, but there is very little clearance between the fan motor endcap and the waterpump pulley...perhaps 3/8" to 1/2". The fan would need to be offset at least 3/4" or more from the surface of the core to allow flow from the entire face of the fins if the shroud is going to work as we'd want at the outer corners, and I just don't have that much room. I think my front pusher/rear puller is probably a fine way to go. I do give Federale credit for thinking outside the can, tho...I had an IHC 1066 tractor that had the AC condensers laying flat on top and to the rear of the cab...ones that size would dang'd near fit under the visor...
I'd consider either a manual cutout switch, or a secondary temperatrure switch to stage the two fans. That way your electrical load is eased at all times except when extra cooling is needed. Of course, this makes a more complex system, too.
