Fuel pump help please

Discussion in '1947-1954' started by Alive@65, Oct 15, 2013.

  1. Alive@65

    Alive@65 Member

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    I installed all new gas tank, fuel pump (w/o vac assist), and fuel lines last summer. I then got the motor running after also installing a new battery, starter, coil, plugs, plug wires, and new ignition wiring (and with help from Nate and others), I started and ran it from time to time for no more than an hour in total, but haven't been running it since last fall because I had a nasty oil leak from the fuel pump gasket and just didn't get around to dealing with it until today. When I pulled the pump, I saw where the gasket had shifted when installed, and was the obvious cause of the oil leak. So, when installing a new gasket, I coated both sides with Permatex non-permanent gasket sealer.

    I had a battery tender on it all these months, but when I cranked it today, it didn't have much juice. So, I hooked up a charger, checked the battery levels (a little low, but not too bad), and kept trying to start it. It would fire and sputter with starter fluid or gas poured into the carb but wouldn't keep running. I then pulled the fuel line between the pump and the carb and there was no gas in it at all, and no gas in the pump bowl.

    So, do I just need more juice in the battery to run the pump long enough to draw gas from the tank up to the pump? (By the way, the gas was treated with stabilizer.) Or is it possible that I got too much Permatex on the gasket so that the pump arm is too far from the pump cam? (My old MOTORS manual lists a too thick gasket as a possible cause of low pump pressure.)
     
  2. Chiro

    Chiro Member

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    A New York Yankee living in Virginia
    Oh boy...

    If you haven't run it since last fall, there could be a whole bunch of problems going on and they most all are likely fuel related.

    I don't think anybody on this forum is going to dispute my assertion that today's gas sucks!

    You must RUN vehicles because today's gas will ruin old-timey fuel systems if the gas sits for too long.

    That being said, if you leave today's gas for too long, the ethanol can wreak havoc with fuel system components, regardless of whether you used stabilizer or not. It is likely that the gas destroyed the internal components of your fuel pump. I would start there by replacing it. It's relatively cheap and easy to do that first. If that doesn't solve the problem, move on to rebuilding the carb. If that solves the problem but it comes back after a while, it's time to take out the gas tank and have it flushed clean at a local radiator shop. There you go...brand new fuel system.

    Carry on and good luck,

    Andy
     
  3. Zig

    Zig Member

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    You bet~ Leaving a system shut down with gas in it is not good. Things get all crapped up that way. I know when I get around to focusing on starting my engine again I will have to take the tank out and clean it again, replace the filters, rebuild the carb, and before I try to start it, let the fuel pump pump gas through it for a bit just to make sure it is a good strong flow. (I'll need a length of hose and a bucket for this...)
    Once that's done, I can work on purging all the crap out of the cooling system, oh boy oh boy...) :/
    That's just the way it is when you shut one of these down for an extended period of time.
     
  4. ol' chebby

    ol' chebby Member

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    When you pulled the fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump, did gas flow out? If not you have a clog...probably in tank. Blow gently some compressed air into the line, fuel cap off. then see if it flows. These tanks usually have a buildup of crap that can cover and plug the gas line. You may want to pull and clean thae tank, or just replace it with a new one, they are cheap.
     
  5. Alive@65

    Alive@65 Member

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    fuel pump problem

    Thanks for the input guys, but I forgot to mention that I used "clean" non-ethanol gas--with stabilizer. But I did mention that I replaced the entire fuel system except the carb--so the tank was/is clean, and ethanol damage wasn't a factor.

    When I pulled the input line from the pump no gas came out--which is why I wondered if I just needed enough battery power to pump up the system.

    So, today, I put my old fuel pump back on--since it wasn't actually bad (that I know of) but I had replaced it just to have everything new (also I liked the glass bowl type). The truck still didn't start, so I resorted to the last resort. Fortunately, the new gas tank has a drain plug in the front corner--which is at the lowest point since the car is parked on a slight downhill slope. I removed the plug and got a trickle of gas--which soon stopped! So, THE GAS TANK WAS EMPTY! But it still hasn't started because I now need to charge the battery again.

    This was not a test, but it could have been--since no one suggested the obvious (including me). I thought it had plenty of gas in it for no more that I ran it since last fall, but obviously not. Also, the gauge is not connected since I need to replace the gauges, etc.

    I hope you're having a good laugh--or maybe kicking yourself--as I am. But I really wasn't trying to mess with your heads (rocker arms and all)!

    Thanks!
     
  6. ol' chebby

    ol' chebby Member

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    I didn't want to say it so not to be a smart ass. I also thought about the petcock on the underside of the tank.


    " It ain't got no gas in it. MMMM HMM."
    slingblade.
     
  7. Alive@65

    Alive@65 Member

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    Reply to replies about fuel pump issues.

    Not a petcock ol' chebby, just a drain plug--I took it out to see if I had gas in the tank and about one ounce dribbled out.

    I poured in about a gallon and a half (after replacing the plug), but it's still not starting--but considering that I'm parked slightly downhill (forward) that small amount of gas probably isn't covering the pick-up line in the tank.

    When I get into town and get 5 gallons of clean gas, I'll let you know if it did the trick. If not, then I'm tempted to install an electric fuel pump as a booster.
     
  8. ol' chebby

    ol' chebby Member

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    The drain is from the bottom of the tank, it should pick it up. There may still be a small amount of trash in the pickup.
     
  9. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Fuel Flow

    As mentioned ;

    Disconnect the fuel pump's inlet pipe , fuel *MUST* come gushing out or the pump will never prime itself .

    You rarely need an electric fuel pump , take a moment to check the basics first .
     
  10. ol' chebby

    ol' chebby Member

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    Stock came with a shutoff valve at the bottom of the tank. It is the thingy with the thumb screw that makes a right angle and connects to the fuel line. If you didn't put this back in, then you should not have anything to shut off flow......except no gas.
     
  11. Alive@65

    Alive@65 Member

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    Yeah Nate, I wondered about priming the fuel pump but when it ran last year after I installed a new tank, lines, and pump, I didn't need to prime it. In theory, if everything is tight, the pump should create enough vacuum to pull gas to the pump and push it to the carb.

    As to the electric pump, I only thought about it but doubt that I'd ever actually install one for a couple of reasons: They pump about 5 psi whereas the system needs only 3 psi, so there would be problems with high pressure--which might be solved by installing a 12v pump on a 6v system. But another reason is that an electric pump is not stock and shouldn't be necessary if everything else is working--although one might be handy if it were wired to run only while the starter is running so as to act as a booster.

    After I put in 5 gallons of clean gas, it still didn't run, so I pulled off my old pump and put the new one back on--but now I'm letting it charge again. It should run since it ran last year with everything the same except the bad pump gasket. What frustrates me is that I swapped out parts like this a lot when I was a high school kid driving my '53 Chevy and later a '58, but I never had this much trouble--and I had way less of a clue as to what I was doing back then.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2013
  12. ccharr

    ccharr Member

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    Have you shot some air from the mechanical fuel pump location into the tank? With new lines and tank under the cab and bed there should not be a blockage but it will knock out a air lock. You can install the electrical pump as It did with a starter button for start-up and during the hot desert runs to stop vapor lock. Below are some photos of what I have done. A search of the board posts under my moniker will show how things went. Have you tried pouring fuel directly into the carb to see if it will start at all?
     

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  13. Alive@65

    Alive@65 Member

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    fuel pump problem

    Thanks for the input Charles (and others). I just shut it down after letting it idle for about twenty minutes! WooHoo!

    After I put the new pump back on--and with at least 5 gallons of good gas in it, it finally started on it's own with no help from starting fluid or gas poured in the carb. It took a minute or so of cranking, but the pump finally filled the lines and got the gas where it belongs--and the new fuel pump gasket stopped the oil leak, so I can now start and run it every week or so.

    But it's running a little rough and I have a nasty smoke problem so I suspect I have a sticky valve from it sitting for so long. It had a complete overhaul not long before I stopped driving it, so the rings and valves should be OK. I'm going to get a bottle of Mystery Oil and see if that loosens up the valves--otherwise I'll have the EPA after me.

    Ain't it fun tinkering with these relics (except when it isn't)?
     
  14. ccharr

    ccharr Member

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    Your Welcome and glad to hear you have it running again.
     
  15. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Smoking

    Expect some smoke after sitting and having running issues , once you get it running well and out on the open road for 30 + minutes @ speed , most of the smoke should abate .

    Always do HOT oil changes to reduce smoking from older engines .
     
  16. Alive@65

    Alive@65 Member

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    fuel pump problem

    Nate: "out on the open road" Very funny!

    This truck is on blocks--getting the motor running was just the first in a series of small steps to getting it on the road. The last time I ran it, I couldn't even get it into gear. Since all wheels are off the ground, my next challenge is to get the linkage loosened up so I can get the rest of the drive train moving, and then I need to install new brake lines, drums, master and wheel cylinders--the works.

    What do you think about front disc brakes? I'd like to keep it as original as possible, but if I'm going to convert to 12 volt, I may as well take one more step towards bringing it into the 21st Century--and disc brakes are a huge safety improvement. I mean, what good is bringing it back to life and then having it smashed up from lack of stopping power?
     
  17. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Upgrades

    Disc brakes are good but it's a '51 so it already had the vastly improved Bendix brakes , if you take the time to sort them out then add a vacuum power booster , that should hold you fine for years as you go through the rest of the truck making it safe and road worthy .

    Remember :Bendix says to NEVER turn the drums unless they're *so* warped they cause brake pedal pulsation under hard braking .

    Most complaints against drum brakes stem from improper service and mindless machining of the drums with every shoe change .

    6 lug disc brake conversions are out there , look VERY carefully before you buy ! .

    As it's not road ready , you can run the engine up to 2,800 ~ 3,000 RPM's and hold it there a while , this will heat up the accumulated carbon and blow it out , reducing smoking . be aware it'll be REALLY LOUD when you're revving an unladen long stroke engine .

    Or , once it's fully warmed up and running sweet , hold it to 2,500 RPM's and gently mist some water in the carby ~ the water vapor will *instantly* flash into steam and blow the carbon off the piston crowns and combustion chambers ~ that's why the cylinder adjacent to a weepy head gasket , is always suspiciously clean when you remove the head for service .
     
  18. Alive@65

    Alive@65 Member

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    Reply to replies about fuel pump issues.

    Actually, it'a a '47, so the brakes are Houck (sp?). But after crunching the numbers, I may just go with drums and shoes all around. I would get new drums just to start over with everything new--and for as little as I will probably drive it, I should never have to worry about the brakes again except for adjusting.

    That's good info on burning out the carbon. I was thinking about what I might do to the engine if I can only run it in the driveway. Maybe I should rig a generator to the rear wheels to generate my own electricity--since I'm burning the gas anyway.
     
  19. Bilbo

    Bilbo Member

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    If the backing plates are the same, I have the back plates and all the new brake hardware, including shoes, wheel cyl., flex line, brake drums, and spring kit. I installed front discs on my truck so all that stuff is available
    Bill
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  20. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Brakes

    It's strange that GM used Huck brakes and they rhyme with SUCK.....

    They barely stopped the '37 Coupe they were introduced on , your truck is a serious load for them .

    Never , EVER turn those drums ! :eek: .
     

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