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10 bolt or 12 bolt rear-ends?

lazys53

lazys53

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live in Sparks,NV, but my heart is in Cali.( I wil
I know this question is a "no brianer" for most of you. But, I want to put disc brakes on all four corners. I see I can get the fronts from Chevy Duty, but when I look at the ones for the rear, it says for a 10 bolt or a 12 bolt. I'm guessing it means lug pattern, but of course its got to do with something else that I just not looking at. again, give a Body & Paint guy some help with the mechanic part of these trucks. GDoes this mean I have go with a differant rear-end? let me know.
later,---> lazy :o
 
Ten and twelve bolt refers to the number of bolts that are in the rear ring gear cover. According to my uncle, twelve bolt rear ends ran six lug axles, while ten bolt rear ends run five lug axles. However, this may only appy to later model axles, where the ring gear cover is on the back of the axle. Is your cover on the rear or the front?
 
rear ends

I thought the 10, or 12 bolt referred to the number of bolts on the ring gear. Anyways, there were 5 lug 12 bolt differentials. If you are not planning to run huge amounts of power, the 10 bolt rear ends from 70's Camaros, up until 82, or 83 I think it is, they will work. Most of them were from automatics, which the gearing is very low. If you can find one from a manual transmission car, the gearing I think we found was 3.3 to 3.73 range. You can look up on the web and find exact numbers. They are a good fit for these trucks. Width is very close to original, and they use 5 lug patterns the same as the brake kits sold here. Most are rear drums, but have seen a few with discs. My rear end is a 3.43:1 out of a 1980 Camaro. I also used a 2002 Z28 rear disc setup, which bolts right on to the 10 bolt. Hope this helps...Mike
 
Figure out the bolt pattern of your back hubs. Then call Classic Performance Products (which is where Classic Parts gets their sets drop-shipped from) and ask what the bolt pattern is. Give them your application and see if they have the stuff for you. I can't imagine they would sell disc brakes that ONLY fit one type of rear end. Give em a call!
 
lazys53 said:
I know this question is a "no brianer" for most of you. But, I want to put disc brakes on all four corners. I see I can get the fronts from Chevy Duty, but when I look at the ones for the rear, it says for a 10 bolt or a 12 bolt. I'm guessing it means lug pattern, but of course its got to do with something else that I just not looking at. again, give a Body & Paint guy some help with the mechanic part of these trucks. GDoes this mean I have go with a differant rear-end? let me know.
later,---> lazy :o
Click to expand...

If you are planning to keep your original style engine/trans combo,I don't think there are disc brake kits available for the rear. However if you are going to an open driveline you could use a Camaro or Nova rear. Disc brake kits are readily available for these.
 
I am going to install the 3:55.1 gears in the rear end. I was told that this IS the open driveline. Let me know if I'm not understanding right. I was told if I installed these gears, that the truck would be able to ride at a higher speed without whinning out the tranny. I'm going to swap the 216 for a 261 soon. I'm so used to replacing disc brakes in the rest of my vehicles. I just want the same ease in my truck. Also as an upgrade. If, I have been misled, do me a favor, and brake down the whole process to me. The correct rear end I need to get the disc brakes in the rear. Maybe my idea of an open driveline is wrong. Just correct me, where ever I'm wrong, please.
 
Re:Driveline

A quick way to determine which driveline you have is to crawl under the truck and see if the universal joints are visible at the back of the transmission and the front of the rear axle. An open driveline should look similar to this,only a lot longer. Click on pic.
 

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Lazy ;

Your '53 has the good Bendix brakes on it now so all you needs do is to keep them in good order and they'll stop fine , really .

If you want to upgrade , just a front disc brake conversion is all you'll need .

Resist bad info from crazy parts changers who think no job is done unless you $pend $1,000.00 on it..

DO NOT get talked into turning the drums either ! this is a B.S. deal to sell parts , only out of round , deeply scored or _severely_ bell mouthed drums ever need turning ~ I went to Bendix (and other) factory brake school ~ how many others ever did ? READ up and learn to maintain your old truck correctly , it'll be the best truck you ever drove / worked .
 
Hey Nate,
Thanks. You are right about the spending $$ part. But it hasn't been someone else bending my ear, its been me trying to put my truck on the road for once on for ALL. You know? The bad thing that I did, was to trick myself into thinking, that I had to put him down so I could work on it. Right now, I need a new E- Brake. Think it's locked up, it locked up on me about 2 yrs ago now. Thought it was the tranny or something else down below. Now, with talking with you and reading what others have wrote, I believe its the E-brake I got to change. The brakes, yeah, I think I'll just go with disc's up front and just re-build the rear with all new hardware and check out the drum, see what lies there. I'll keep you posted on them rear ones. I know brakes, but never done some likes these. You know, I got underneith 'em yesterday, I got one long torgue tube of a dawm driveline. If I were to swap rearend gears for the 3:55.1 from C.D., would this give me something like an OPEN driveline? Cuz, "I want to be able to spend some time in the left lane." Like they say.
thanks again
lazy
 
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Lazy ;

Not to worry ! .

These old rigs lock up the rear brakes whilst sitting , all the time ~ jack and block the rear end up , remove the wheel and replace the lug nuts _inverted_
, thread them on so they're flush with the stud ends , take a single jack (sledge hammer with short handle) and SMACK the brake drum between the studs , the inverted lug nuts will protect the threads in case you miss (I do occasionally) , it'll often take a while of beating to shock the rusted in place shoes loose so keep at it , I'm sure you can figure out the parking brake needs to be released to do this...

Backing off the brake adjusters helps too there's two per wheel , one on each side of the brake cylinder , use a stubby flat blade screwdriver or a fancy-schmancy brake spoon ($5.00 @ harbor Freight) .

You'll find that tall tires will often get you up to speed just fine , read the archives for the recommended 16" radial tire size ~ get the right tires on there and it'll not only go fast but be SAFER and look stock too......

DON'T run Bias-Ply tires if you plan to drive over 45 MPH .

Be wary of boobs who tell you the Torque Tube is bad , it's lasted 50 + years of near ZERO maintenance , how bad can that be ? .

Once you get the brake drums off , get relined shoes , NEW brake cylinders and NEW flex hoses too ~ remember this : DO NOT trade in your old parts untill the job is 100 % finished and driving to your satisfaction as once you hand over your old cores they're _GONE_ forever , too bad if they sold you the wrong parts .


More as you need it buddy...
 
OK Nate,
I'll do the tricks to get the brakes loose and re-done, thanks for the all the heads-up. Gonna go ahead and replace 'em all the way around( front & rear) with original parts. Just to get use to replacing 'em. Now, with the torgue tube. My ? is, will changing the rear gears to the 3:55.1 do anything for me? Less whinning of the tranny? Last time I had him on the road, I would just be able to go a little bit slower than people in the slow lane. But my engine/tranny were whinning real loud. Did not feel safe. But there I was anyways, you know. I still wanna go with that 261, I would like to hear, that I could do it, and everything will be ok. Tell me how it is Nate. No B.S. I want to keep it as stock as possible, just with some extra kicks. And a few upgrades. Not asking much. I'm gonna go with some 15" white-wall Cokers with some Cross-Bar hub-caps. Then go with airbags suspension. I can see it, but I would like hear that it is possible.
Thanx Nate
lazy
 
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Hi Lazy ;

Whew , what a day ~ all night last night woth the CT & MRI scans , then carby troubles in my Kooky Kommie Motocycles , missed work to-day (I needed some rest anyway) and so on...

Oops ~ you asked me some questions .

So , first things first , get the brakes sorted out so it'll stop , add some Gear oil into the steering box and then carefully adjust that so it'll not crash into anything , then a _major_ tune up on the current 6 banger under the hood , then you can get some tires .

I dunno where you're at ? Coker is a gyp joint , NO warrantee , no matter what they say when they're taking your hard earned $ and they make crappy tires to boot ~ ask anyone who's actually tried to DRIVE on them , you'll get horror stories of blowouts..

I use and _highly_ recommend wide white walls from Diamond Back Classics ,
they take top quality Dayton brand truck tires , buff one sidewall and then vulcanize on a new , 4" wide white wall ~ mine have over 40,00 miles of hard commercial service on them , in the dirt , deseert sand and I've curbed them hard a few times , still have plenty of tread (loks near new in fact) plus the white walls are still nice . a little bit $pendy but if ya want to crusie and be safe and look _really_ sharp with those Cross Tops and red wheels (you are painting the wheels red aren'tcha?) peeping 'round the edges , it's worth the $ in cost .

If you get the correct size 16" tires , you'll find your stock setup makes 55 O.K. , you may not need to use Patrik's excellent 3.55 ring & pinion , yes I have that and I think it's the Bee's Knees , my old truck has been clocked @ 75 MPH fully loaded up with three people in the cab , in Death Valley so it does work .

The correct size is listed here on this boar , look in the archive unter " tires " or " Radial Tires " or something they are , uh 235/80R16LT or something like that , the size is a little odd so the overall diameter works out the same and they're not all stupidly fat looking since you want it to look like an old truck , not like a hot rod . 15" tires are going to keep your engine screaming on the highway....

I'd go with the 16"s , a little bit larger diameter makes a noticeable differance in engine RPM's .

Airbags , they work pretty well , I know a guy who did his '54 Chevy 2 door with them , he had to have it all re-done but it works nicely . just do _LOTS_ of research and keep on top of the airbag guy as the boob in Gardena did a half a$$ job that really wasn't safe due to poor welding and incorrectly boxed in sections . you can lay a Torque Tube equipped car _one_the_gound_ easily if you're using airbags...

Your tranny will always whine , it's thier nature , the engine roaring like a jumbo jet taking off , that's not good , once you get the right tires it'll be far less and yes , the 261 will have _plenty_ of punch to hustle your truck 'round town . it's pretty easy to make a 216 or 235 go fast too , just don't plan on tire spinning burnouts as they won't last like that .

Engine hop up work is simple but it take time and that means $ down at the machine shop ~ if your old engine (235 I hope) has over 125 # compression per cyclinder , I can show you how to tune it to really sing a sweet song of power , dual exhaust with no mufflers allows it to breathe , glass packs that rap reduce power so figure out if you want to go or show .

If you're in L.A. we should meet for coffee and I'll show you a beat to shyte working '49 that's a good runner , Freeway Flyer , Torque Tube and 235 , doesn't even have the dual carbies on it yet .

So , I hope this no BS answer helps you out , it's ALL do-able as you've laid it out ~ takes some $$ and time & effort but you'll have a sweet truck you can drive anywhere in...
 
Nate, archives show your tire is Dayton LT 215/85/R16.
I know you like the exhaust with the straight pipes. How does it sound? Is it raspy at all. I have heard some straight pipes that are way to harsh for me. I am looking at dual exhaust, but want a nice sound, not too crackly. I may not be able to run all the way to the back. Was thinking of maybe dumping out the sides in front of the tires, and using some nice tips. Any thoughts? Thanks......Mike
 
Tire Size & Straight Pipes

Mike ;

THANX for finding the correct tire size , I'm on dialup plus I'm a 'puter dufus so I cannot ever use the archives... I spent some time researching this correct tire size and it really made a big differance in usefull highway speeds , I too like the left lane (right to our Brit. freinds) but please to remember : these old rigs are DEATHTRAPS ~ don't kid your self , if you've seen as many dead bodies in wrecks as I have , you'd be content driving slower in an oldie .

Anyway , back to the subject @ hand , yes , I run straight pipes and here's a the straight skinny on them and the _noise_ issue :

If you manifold is split with a restrictor inside it -or- it's been cut into two pieces (like Kansas Kustoms) it WILL make noise ~ LOTS of it .

if you add a glass pack , even a 40" Smittys , it will also make noise . (40 inch Smitty's will make it very nice sounding noise tho')

If , however , you either have your manifold split but leave out the internal baffle plate and / or use a true open pipe , it'll have a nice musical tone to it as the Chevy 6 cylinder engine is very softly cammed , that's why it makes nearly all it's power and torque from just above idle , all the way to redline .

my manifold cracked so I am currently running an open , single pipe , it sounds very nice and I drive it through Beverly Hills and Bell Air withgout ever getting pulled over...

No B.S. .

If you have a true split exhaust manifold but want more power -and- less noise , have the muffler guy add a crossover connector as close to the exhaust manifold as possible , then the ' bark ' will go out of your exhaust plus the mixing of the exhaust pulses will help scavange your exhaust and give you some FREE power ~ sweet deal eh ? . all this and NO noise tickets ! .

I hope this helped , if I'm just babbling again and it isn't clear , ASK and I'll try to make a better answer next time , 'K ? .

-Nate

mikesters1950 said:
Nate, archives show your tire is Dayton LT 215/85/R16.
I know you like the exhaust with the straight pipes. How does it sound? Is it raspy at all. I have heard some straight pipes that are way to harsh for me. I am looking at dual exhaust, but want a nice sound, not too crackly. I may not be able to run all the way to the back. Was thinking of maybe dumping out the sides in front of the tires, and using some nice tips. Any thoughts? Thanks......Mike
Click to expand...
 
Thanx !

brit 50 said:
Nate, sir, you are a mine of usefull information, respect to you.
Click to expand...



Why , thank you kind sir .

I am just an old Farm / used car mechanic who had the pleasure of growing up during the time when these fine old rigs were just beaters & cheap workhorses plus of course I learned at the kneees of many Veterans who'd had fabulous GM factory training plus Uncle Sam's best training durning WWII
then I did restorations for many years so I know how to fix 'em " On The Cheap " and the show way too , I'll take a good solid driver over any trailer queen any day .

Some guys just say I'm F.O.S. :eek: so I apreciate your kind words there .
 
Short Pipes

Having the exhaust pipes dump out before the rear wheels is gauaranteeing it'll make more noise ~ you _need_ the long pipe to help quiet it down .

There's _NO_ reason why you cannot have your muffler nam bend up a nice set of pipes all the way out the back...

FWIW ; I hate crackly exhaust..

-Nate
mikesters1950 said:
Nate,

I may not be able to run all the way to the back. Was thinking of maybe dumping out the sides in front of the tires, and using some nice tips. Any thoughts? Thanks......Mike
Click to expand...
 
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