216 to 235 swap...need advice

Discussion in '1947-1954' started by cmunoz11018, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. cmunoz11018

    cmunoz11018 Member

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    Im looking at purchasing a 235 engine from a 1955 chevy truck which will come with carburetor, starter, alternator, bell housing and flywheel. the engine is complete and according to seller was recently rebuilt and does not smoke. my question is will the 3 speed tranny from the 216 work with the 1955 model 235 engine and will I need different motor mounts. thanks and appreciate ya'lls advice.
    PS..price on Engine is $400.00

    Carlos.
     
  2. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Yes

    In spite of the close to $2,000 spent rebuilding it , this is the top of the value a 235 gets .

    You'll need to change the front plate to accept the AD's center mount but otherwise it's pretty much a bolt up deal .

    Try to get the horizontal throttle rod from the '55 .

    I'd pop off the clutch of both engines and use the larger one ,

    You're going to LOVE this 235 ! .
     
  3. cmunoz11018

    cmunoz11018 Member

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    Thanks Nate, I feel more confident now in acquiring 235. appreciate your response.

    take care,

    Carlos.
     
  4. LaTroca52

    LaTroca52 Member

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    will work

    it will work fine the only thing you will have to do is cut the rod that the gas pedal attaches to .
    Robert.
     
  5. LaTroca52

    LaTroca52 Member

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    transmission

    overdrive transmission cant go wrong unless you go floor shift
     
  6. cmunoz11018

    cmunoz11018 Member

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    so my current 3 on the column will be ok?

    Thanks, Troca52.
     
  7. cmunoz11018

    cmunoz11018 Member

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    Nate, sorry for the ignorant question on my part but what does AD stand for and when u mention front plate are u referring to the crossmember?

    thanks, again
     
  8. Thunder54

    Thunder54 Member

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    Water pump

    There is also the long water pump on the engine you are acquiring unless the 235 it comes out of a 55.1 AD.

    I assume this engine was in a 55.2 task force (TF) truck.

    You will need the short water pump from a 54 AD truck.

    Jim
     
  9. morabuffalo

    morabuffalo Member

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    To be or not to be...or...235 or 235

    Ok...slow down now...is it a 235 or a 235? My memory fades, but I went through some touch and go stuff with a 235 way back about 35 years ago...and I am not sure of lots of the details, but...

    I took out my 216 and put in what I was sold as a 235 from 1955.....an odd ball 235! Yes, the water pump, mounting, exhaust, and a couple of other minor things did not just fit right...from what my old brain remembers. Parts became an issue and I finally got rid of the engine and put in a 1956...235...and all is well. Still have it and don't even try to convince me to go V8 or otherwise. I love this 235! and have had it now for some 35 years.

    Of course, for those of you who have been around for some time...(Nate)...there was a period of time that we went through that you could not find parts...I remember grabbing up a carb insulator that was cracked...and I was on cloud nine...and it took me some time to find it! Other areas of the states may have had sources, but not here! Those were trying times...between the current stock at auto parts stores and finally reaching vintage. (Oh, kinda like me)

    Any way, I would kind of double check and make sure it is 1955 or whatever and that it will fit. Maybe that odd ball engine that I had was really a 1941, 1944, or whatever. Any body else have similar experiences?

    So the moral of the story as I remember it...To be or not to be or a 235 or 235...that is the question!

    Rod
     
  10. ol' chebby

    ol' chebby Member

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    54-55 235 is a 2 year engine. It still uses the 216 style water pump. The 56 up uses a different water pump, it will need to be shortened, or you can order a shortened one, check my build thread. There is an adapter for the water pump to relocate it and use a 216 one. Use a 235 fan, it turns faster, a 216 may explode due to speed.
     
  11. Flashlight

    Flashlight Member

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    On my 53' there is a 235 (1962) apparently the PO didn't know about the short shaft pump. He put spacers on the lower radiator and pushed it out away from the fan. It clears well and cools happily. It always amazes me the ingenuity of some folks when money is tight and you gotta make something work.
     
  12. cmunoz11018

    cmunoz11018 Member

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    Here are some pics of 235.
     

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  13. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    235 Engine

    That engine wasn't recently rebuilt .

    " AD " is Advanced Design , the 1947.2 ~ 1955.1 series of light trucks made by GM .

    The front engine plate is attached to your engine and the front motor mount attaches to it , no need to modify the truck's crossmember .

    Pardon my fuzzy memory but I seem to recall the '55 235 had side mount bosses in a triangular shape .

    The 1954 full pressure 235 is a one year only engine .

    If you now have a pedal starter , use the 216's flywheel as the starter and flywheel must match ~ when they went from 6 to 12 volts , the tooth count changed .

    It's O.K. to run the old 6 volt starter on 12 volts , it'll spin very fast and ensure quick starts always .

    Oops ~ gotta run ! work is calling .
     
  14. Blueflame236

    Blueflame236 Member

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    Restauration and overhauling sourses

    Good morning Carlos

    The advices that Nate has given you makes very much sence . You could find out the excact engine information by finding the numbers stamped on the engines left side and tell us what they are , important because it will tell you what excactly is needed to do when installing the engine and parts to make it function in your truck. Decoding 6 cyl. engines is mostly an easy work to do with nowerdays sources.

    I to became a bit scepticall by reading your information that this engine whas recently rebuild after looking at your pictures ! But maybe it whas redone on the inside but not on the outside who knows ? My hunch says its a car engine later then 55 , maybe from a Nova ? The engine color , the long type waterpump , oil filler cap and aircleaner outlet ?

    Some good rebuild sourses for public usage;

    http://www.patricksantiquecars.com/articles.html

    http://www.speedprint.com/deves50/frameup.php


    Thanks fore your pm wich i replied Martinius.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2013
  15. DeadZoneTruckin

    DeadZoneTruckin Member

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    The 1954 235 was a one year only full pressure motor.
    It is unique as it still uses the earlier external impeller 216 water pump.

    Everything changed in 1955 & the water pump was moved into the block using an internal impeller. This motor was used until 1962.

    All truck motors used a mount that was bolted to the bottom of the timing cover.
    All car motors used the side mounting mounts that nate mentioned.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
  16. cmunoz11018

    cmunoz11018 Member

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    Thanks fellas, a lot of info which helps out. Ive asked the gentleman selling the motor to text me the block serial no.

    Carlos.
     
  17. DeadZoneTruckin

    DeadZoneTruckin Member

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    I can tell by the pictures that it is a 1955-1962 235 car motor.
    You will need to drill the bottom of the timing chain cover to use the truck front motor mount if it has not already been done.
    Car motor means it has hydraulic lifters & judging by the PCV valve fittings on the air cleaner & valve cover... my guess is it spent some time in California during the 70's for a NoX emissions upgrade.

    More info. on 216/235 swap....



    Swap your '216 Chevy "6" for a '235

    If you own a '37-'53 early Chevy car or truck with a "splash oiling" '216 or '235 engine, and want a smooth, powerful daily "driver", installing the later full-pressure '235 is the answer.

    This new design was first installed in '53 passenger cars with PowerGlide, thereafter in all models and sizes
    (passengers and commercial)

    Not only does the swap happen easily, without butchering or modification, it brings improved performance and reliability from full-pressure oiling, insert rod bearing, and lighter-weight aluminum pistons not to mention improved breathing, thanks to larger intake valves and ports.

    Read on for the simple installation tips and identification clues to help you score the right engine: This is one swap "made in heaven"

    The rear of every Chevy '6' block ('216, '235, or '261) is the same from 1937 through 1962! And, the flywheel/crank-flange pattern is the same from '40-'62! We obviously have wonderful interchangeability. Therefore, using pure Chevy parts, any engine from '37-'62 can be installed into any chassis (car, truck, etc.) from '37262!
    You will however, need to pick the right parts: here's how....

    Whenever you're putting the donor engine into ('41-'53), re-use your original bell-housing, flywheel, and starter. This means your rear motor-mounts remain unchanged. '37-'40 installations will need to get a '41-'54 wide-tooth (#139) 6-bolt flywheel off any '216, '235 or '261; then, use their original bell- housing starter. The 6-volt starter is just fine, even if you're converting to 12-volts; it'll love it!
    (Final Note of Caution: The fine-tooth (#162) '55 and later flywheel will not mesh with your original starter! Do not use it.)

    *'37 chassis (Pass or comm.) are all alone in (3) additional requirements:

    must obtain a '41-'54 throwout arm (and pivot ball).
    replace throwout thrust washer with a '41-'62 throwout bearing, and
    obtain and install a transmission throwout bearing retainer from '38 or '39 Chevy transmission.

    Pre-'49 cars and trucks will have to slightly alter the exhaust pipe to fit the '235 manifold. (Nice time to install "duals", isn't it? Hint. Hint.) By the way, '216/'235 exhaust/intakes won't mix and match. And, although the entire '216 manifold set can be bolted to the 235 involved, it's a bit Mickey Mouse since the port rings will have to be eliminated due to the '216s smaller port size.

    If your "new" '235 has the big water-temp. hole, ask NAPA for Balkamp part #701-1798 (Weatherhead calls it part # 202x5x4). Now, your original temp. sender fits.

    Let's solve the "hydraulic or solid lifter question" now... "Solids' were the rule on every Chevy '6' through 1949 (either '216 or '235 "Loadmaster"). Between 1950 and 57. solids came with every commercial or "stick" (passenger) transmission, whether '216 or 235 or 261 engine. Hydraulics went only with PowerGlide equipped cars. From '58 to '62, every block was drilled for hydraulic lifters, though some had solids installed. (Hydraulic lifters will only function in a block that has the oiling passage drilled through the lifter bores) this hole will be plugged and visible on the rear of the block, just above the cam plug.

    (**special note: there are, currently, no satisfactory aftermarket hydraulic lifters available. So, we suggest you install a solid-lifter cam/lifter combo,)

    '58-'62 engines must use a lifter with chamfered sides to prevent shutting off rocker arm oil! No oil line from rear cam bearing to block-center will be found in the pushrod chamber of these engines; and, in addition to the I.D. criteria (above), will have a triangular side-mount pattern.

    Mention MUST be made of the Federal reduction of gasoline lead-content to .1gm/gal. begining January 1, 1985. This amount of lead additive is 1/10 of the amount your engine was designed for and, continued operation will effect exhaust valve seat life. Take the time, while you're building your engine, to have the no-lead exhaust valves and seats installed in the cylinder hear! (You'll do it sooner or later.) Call Patrick's for the parts.

    ADDENDUM
    SPECIAL NOTE for all 1952 and '53 passenger. Your cars have a side-mount arrangement which will require locating a full-pressure block from either a '53 PowerGlide or (any '54) car or truck. (See add'l pics and details in eng. I.D. section).

    With a bit of perserverance, a 58-62 block can be installed, by modifying the 53-54 mount brackets. Using a 55-57 block will require reverting to '49-'51 mounting: front mounts and side mounts and brackets (the bolt on's at the bell-housing and axle brackets extending off the frame rails)

    Identifying the full-pressure you want to install: (Remember, you're looking for a '53 PowerGlide, or anything later.)

    Simply checking the style of the water pump will take care of about 90% of the prospects. If it has a pump whose entire body is below the head gasket surface, rather than half on the block and the upper half in front of the head, it's gotta he '55 (2nd) through '62. You've found it. The search is over. Disregard any of the next criteria.
    Check the rocker cover ("valve cover"). If it's held on with four (4) screws (2 on each side), it's a '54-'62 and the right one. Look no further- you just scored.
    Walk on by any engine with the tall pushrod cover that surrounds the spark plugs. It is a "babbit pounder".
    Also eliminate any engine with the little, tell-tale triangular plate and curved oil line in the middle of the driver's side. This tells you it has the dreaded dipper rods and splash oiling. The driver's side of the engine you want is ''clean" (no plate or line).
    Disregard any engine with the studs through the rocker cover, except one: the '53 P.G. (first year); but, it will be without the above plate and line, too.
    Want to pinpoint engine I.D.? On the block above the end of the starter will be an initial (A-L), followed by either (2) or (3) numbers. The initial represents the month: the numbers are the day and year the block was cast. Now, then, no more guessing!

    A note on front mount plates.. They will interchange on every Chevy '6' ('216, '235, or '261) built from 1937 thru '62! This matches the bellhousing story. It's another story, but the fronts and rears of every Chevy '6' are also the same as every GMC "small" '6' ('228, '236, '248, '256, '270, and '302)! Obvious why these were popular swaps!

    Throttle linkage may need modifying if your block's bellcrank mount hole is further back (toward firewall). Easy ... some of the curve will need to be taken out of the accelerator rod. Squeeze it in a vise 'till it makes it's travel without rubbing the floor pan (as installed in the bellcrank, without return spring). When that's done, measure how much it needs shortening by bringing the whole linkage assemble to "full throttle". Simply cut that amount out of the slender part of the rod and re-weld. Done!

    Front engine mount pad(s) should be installed on the engine before putting it between the fenders, since the pass. side bolt may only go into the mount with the timing cover and "harmonic balancer" removed. (See front mount hole in addendum, item #3)

    Water pump / generator alignments depend on each other. Install the water pump first. If your '235 wore the long water pump pulley, DO NOT BEGIN HACKING ON THE RADIATOR CORE SUPPORT and/or LATCH PANEL! . Use the short shaft water pump conversion kit. This allows for the use of the larger, late-model fan, which provides better cooling.
    (Note: it is not correct to press the early '216 pulley onto the late water pump, since this spins the impeller approximately 190% of design speed. and may even cavitate the water, causing overheating. In addition, the old, back-woods method can literally be dangerous, since it requires using the '216 "low speed" fan which is turned far beyond its design safety.)

    Now, align the generator with the water pump pulley.

    Radiator Hoses and sizes. Upper hose may require re-use of your '216 thermostat housing. No sweat, bolt it onto the '235 cylinder head. Lower hose may need to be dual-size. Your neighborhood parts house has them available.

    Crankshaft Pilot Bushing. Check for the presence of this vital item if you're putting a "stick" trannie behind the later '235!
    (if the engine came with automatic, it may not have one). Chevy part #3752487. Install with chamfered hole toward you. Drive bushing flush.
     
  18. cmunoz11018

    cmunoz11018 Member

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    Thanks DeadZone, good article. here's the engine serial number for the 235
    0649589f55x.


    Carlos
     
  19. Blueflame236

    Blueflame236 Member

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  20. DeadZoneTruckin

    DeadZoneTruckin Member

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    Need the numbers that are cast into the block behind the starter to properly ID the motor.
    Will begin with CON ............

    Numbers stamped into the pad by the distributor are not reliable.
     

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