Brake lines

[KentC]

Where the brake lines ties into the rear brake cylinder, the line was rusted and started leaking. Looks like the whole brake line that runs across the differential, including the rubber flex hose, needs replacement.
Both Autozone and Napa have steel tubing with the ends already coupled, but of course they only come in standard lengths not equal to my application. My questions are: Is it ok to buy their standard links, cut, bend, then insert a standard union at the point of cut - after cutting out the unneeded tubing? Also, will their $6 cheapo tubing bender do ok at bending a 90 degree bend, where it goes into the cylinder - a one time use of the cheapo bending tool, so to speak? Would the standard hardware store brass union work ok for this application?
Thank God for emergency brakes!
Kent

 

[mikesters1950]

Kent, on my disc brake conversion, I did use the Napa lines, and fittings. They work fine. You will need to shape, and cut them to fit, add the appropriate fittings, and double flare the cut off end. The cheap bender will work, but the more expensive one works better. Also a tubing cutter works better than a hacksaw, etc. It is not a overly complicated job, but it needs to be done correct to avoid leaks. I would see if you could borrow the correct tools, or possibly cut and bend to shape, and take the lines to a shop to have them flared. It really is not worth buying the equipment for a 1 time use in my opinion. Wher do you live? I have the needed tools, and could send them, although it may be cheaper just to have a local shop finish the lines. Let me know if you have any questions.......Mike

 

[vwnate1]

-OR-

You can buy brand new pre-formed brake lines if the thought of catastrophic brake failure worries you .

Bending and double flaring std. brake lines isn't terribly difficult , practice flaring on a bit of scrap line before ruining the nice one you just bent up on the gatepost .

When I was 12 or so I was working on a '49 DeSoto and it had rusted out brake lines being in New Hampshire , as I didn't have acess to a flaring tool I simply made a few circles in the primary line right behind the master cylinder ~ wouldn't win any Concuours but it was safe and worked just fine .


-Nate

 

[KentC]

The Napa tubes are already flared on both ends and I do not have a flaring tool. Would it be ok to cut out the unneeded section of the tube and insert a common brass union found in a hardware store?

 

[mikesters1950]

I would be very reluctant to do it that way. I don't think it will hold up to the pressures, etc. You would probably be better off using shorter sections, and using the correct unions to join them together if there were no other options. I would think if you formed the lines yourself, then took them to a repair shop, they could flare them inexpensively. I would use the proven methods for brake lines, as they are one of the most important components on the truck. You just do not want a failure at any cost.
Nate, what don't you like about the pre formed lines? I hadn't heard any bad things about them. You've got me curious. Are they just very poor quality? ........Mike

 

[KentC]

Mike, I appreciate the tool lending offer, but no thank you. What is "double" flaring and how is it different from "single"? Thank you for the help.
Kent

 

[mikesters1950]

Kent, check this site for some good pictures.
www.integerspin.co.uk/brakeflare.htm
It shows the difference very well. The single flare (sometimes called a bubble flare) is used for low pressure applications. A double flare is commonly used on American car brake lines. I heard that you can rent a flaring tool at Autozone, maybe even Kragens. I would practice a few times on some extra line, before possibly ending up short on a line due to redoing a bad flare. Also use only steel tubing, not aluminum or copper. Stainless will work I hear, but it is not as easy to use or seal from what I am told.......Mike

 

[vwnate1]

RE: Brake lines & Splices

>The Napa tubes are already flared on both ends and I do not
>have a flaring tool. Would it be ok to cut out the unneeded
>section of the tube and insert a common brass union found in
>a hardware store?

NO ! NONONONO ! you must ONLY use a double flared splice and yes , they do make such a thing but why ? .

I have no problem at all with the pre formed tubes and would gladly install them on my old truck if I could afford such niceties , mine are still in good shape (California truck) externally but one never knows abut the insides untill a pinhole develops .


-Nate

 

[mikesters1950]

RE: Brake lines & Splices

Nate, sorry. I reread your other post, and apparently I was still groggy when I read it the first time. I misunderstood it and thought you were against the preformed lines. That's why I was surprised. I agree that the double flare is the only right way to go. It is pretty much the U.S. standard for brake lines. I made all my lines after upgrading to power discs. It just takes a little patience to get a nice end result, and ends up be quite cheap in the end.....Mike

 

[ttcodi]

RE: Brake lines & Splices

I used straight sections of pre-flared line from the auto store. It comes in all lengths so you don't really need to cut.
I was having trouble getting my flares to come out good, they were all lopsided.

 

[KentC]

RE: Brake lines & Splices

I did as Mike and Nate advised - use the Napa/Autozone steel tubing, bend/shape it, cut it (just one end), and double flared the cut ends. Autozone had a deal where they lent the flaring tools (you buy for $25, but return it and the $25 gets refunded on the credit card). I did not realize the high pressure on the lines until I started working on them, a compression fitting could slip, maybe. Definitely use the double flare, me thinks. The bending tool was $13 at Autozone, ($35 and Napa); the $13 is a good one.
When I 1st started the job, the "double" flare confused me. But, the 1st flare is to flatten, the second to flare out the middle, each a separate step. It came to me as I was practicing, examining the kit and the flares. I got to where I could do it without the crooked look, but certainly I needed about 6 practices to get it going right. Upon completion, under pressure, I had a major leak, but cut it off and reflared it (used a hacksaw, cutter would have cut too much off), and whatever was wrong it got fixed. There was one minor leak, backed off the connection and tightened again and the droppling stopped - it was fixed.
At this point, right after the job, I would say a novice can do the procedure safely, given some thought and paying attention to the detail. The how-to website mentioned by Mike is must reading. I am un-afeared to drive the vehicle with my self-fix new brake lines. I appreciate the good advise.
KentC
West Texas

 

[mikesters1950]

RE: Brake lines & Splices

Kent, glad to hear it worked out well. I would recommend you recheck the lines a few times in the next few days, weeks, just to make sure there continues to be no leaks. It can't hurt to be extra carefull. Also make sure the lines are secured to the truck. Hopefully the clips on the original lines were still there to reuse. You just want to make sure they aren't flopping around while driving. Congrats, and have fun driving it again.....Mike

 

[vwnate1]

RE: Brake lines & Splices

Good deal Kent ;

Nothing quite like the satisfaction of doing it your ownself .

-Nate

 

[KentC]

RE: Brake lines & Splices

The original clips are there to secure the lines, but still I will forever be concerned about road material hitting one of the lines, out of the wheel cylinders or out of the master cylinder - but that is the weakness of the original design. Yes, I plan to check for leaks after each drive, for the next few months, then sporatically thereafter. I dug through a carpet retailer dumpster and found some carpet I like, so I carpeted the firewall and floorboard. But it is a pain to check the brake fluid now, plus I had made a round plate to cover the brake hole in the floorboard (used a jigsaw with a metal blade). The master cylinder sure looks small. Also, I have always had trouble getting a perfect brake adjustment to make the perfect stop - to veer neither left or right, but straight ahead. Any suggesstions?

 

[vwnate1]

RE: Brake Adjusting

It is a bit of a learned thing , I hope you know to never leave any drag in the wheels after adjusting the brakes ? this cuases heat buildup and doesn't allow the brakes to cool as you're driving along .

The are two adjusters per wheel too , my DPO didn't know this and so had them in such horrible adjustment it was plain old scary . I had to re-adjust the brakes every 50 miles or so as they'd bed in , now it stops near perfect .

Any looseness in anything like spring bushings or tie rod ends , kingpins etc. can cause pulling when you brake..

So will mis matched tires if one side is ever so slightly taller than the rest....

-Nate