Brake Woes

Discussion in '1947-1954' started by Wolf, Apr 18, 2010.

  1. Wolf

    Wolf Member

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    Went out yesterday to to bleed and adjust the brakes on my 52 GMC 3/4 Ton with stock huck brakes.

    1 yr ago i completely rebuilt the brakes. New lines,hoses, wheel cylinders, pads, master cylinder... everything!!!

    Bled the brakes and adjusted and they have been working great ever since. I noticed that I had a small air bubble in the one of the lines, as I could every now and again feel it in the peddle.

    So I went out with my grandpa yesterday to bleed the brakes again and re adjust, due to it being time. Bled the back brakes first, no air out of the passenger rear, and a tiny little air bubble out of the drivers rear. Im sure that was my culprit.

    Next moved to the fronts, bled, and bled and bled.... and bled the brakes. Ran 2 huge bottles through it. Got air and fluid out. Now I have NO PEDDLE AT ALL!!!

    What in the world happened??? I have absolutely no leaks in the system ANYWHERE!

    The only thing I can think of is the master cylinder pooped out. But why all of a sudden.

    When we were bleeding we never let the master cylinder run dry or even half empty. But all we are pumping out is tons of air and fluid. Looked at all my wheel cylinders and they are all fine dry as a bone.

    Any suggestions. Or is my 1 yr old master cylinder shot?
     
  2. Bobby 57

    Bobby 57 Member

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    Sounds like you are sucking in air.I'd check the wheel cylinders for any kind of leak or seepage first.Did you say you saw a bubble in a brake line? That would be suspect too. Also check the tapers on the bleed screws for dirt or gouges.There also maybe a chance you've airated the brake fluid.Can be caused by pumping the pedal to fast.
    Hope this helps
    Bobby 57
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2010
  3. Wolf

    Wolf Member

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    Thanks Bob for your reply. I did check all the wheel cylinders and no leaks what so ever. Yes I did see a bubble in the back right line. My suspicion on that is that it was there after i bleed the brakes the 2nd time, as i couldn't get that bleeder valve open and didn't have a replacement to fix it, so i didn't bleed that line. The brakes were really good though. I could feel that bubble every now and again.

    If I were getting air into the system somewhere other then the master cylinder wouldn't there be some fluid leaking out at that point as well:confused:??? Hopefully later this week I will get a chance to recheck everything. I hurt my back / neck working on my toyota truck and re hurt it working on the brakes, pinched nerve. So i hope to recheck all the wheel cylinders and fittings and everything again soon

    I did think about pumping the pedal to fast, but i could see the bottom of the pedal when i did the fronts and my grandpa was moving it pretty slow.

    Got to thinking about it last night as i fell asleep, and the more I think about it the more I suspect the master cylinder. i mean this isn't a complex system. But i have no pedal at all now, even looking at the wheel cylinders to see if they move, and nothing not a bit.

    Just sucks to have to buy a new master cylinder every year at 110 bucks a pop, if that is what it is.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2010
  4. ol' chebby

    ol' chebby Member

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    On some M/Cs you have to make shure you don't over extend the pushrod by letting the pedal go all the way to the floor. If the rubber seals go past the smooth machined area in the bore, the rough casting can rip the seals to pieces. Learned this the hard way in a jeep.
     
  5. mel 55_1

    mel 55_1 Member

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    If you have any pedal pressure but nothing happens at the brake cylinders then you have a blockage in the line somewhere. Getting dirt in there is easily done when you're filling the M/C thru that little hole in the floor. This doesn't sound like the problem you have though.

    If you have no pedal pressure then either you have a leak (you'd see it somewhere and the fluid level would be going down even with the bleed screws up tight) or you have no fluid in the M/C (obviously you do but it's a reason) or you have air in the lines (you just have to keep bleeding) or you have a M/C with a damaged seal (take it off, strip it down and if you have, get a rebuild kit from CP - less than $20).

    Me, I think I'd try the bleed again (hope your back/neck/nerve things gets better soon) start from scratch at the back and then strip down the M/C if you're still not getting anywhere.
     
  6. Zig

    Zig Member

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    I'm with Mel, Brian

    You would think that if the seals were shot now that there would be fluid coming from the master cylinder. Check all around for leaks~ remember that my old lines would have bit me with the leak that broke through where it goes under the radiator. All the gunk that was built up under there might have absorbed a bunch of the fluid before it ever saturated enough to "drip".
    Here's the good news. It happened in your driveway.

    My dad rebuilt the brakes on an old Oldsmobubble I had. Brakes occasionally felt spongy. One day I needed to hit the brakes. The peddle hit the floor, but the car didn't even think of slowing down. I ended up hitting (of all things) a PIE truck head-on. All I saw before my hood folded up and I went flying around inside my car were his eyes. They were as big as silver dollars. We both were saved any real pain, but he had pies ALL OVER the inside of his delivery truck.

    (Another reason a split or dual mc sounds good to me...)
    Good luck with this, Brian. Check everything real close. Let us know what you find.
    Paul
     
  7. Wolf

    Wolf Member

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    You may have something here. As we were pushing the pedal to the floor when bleeding. We did this the 1st two times as well. Could have damaged that seal. Thanks for the input!

    Mel, thanks. I don't have any pedal at all. Even with a drum off No movement at all at that wheel cylinder, and no firmness at all in the pedal. I didn't poke around last night, as I went for a 12 mile bike ride. Seems to help my back/neck out a bit, as I just tweaked it a bit. Good thing my little sister is a Physical Therapist. And she was here last weekend, got me feeling a bit better.

    I am leery of rebuilding it as I have never done it and it is my brakes. I will make a call into CP today and see if these carry any kind of warranty. Hopefully they do. Still have no fluid leaks anywhere. Took off the cap last night though and still full, not a drop gone, no leaks anywhere still.

    Thanks for the tip though, can't wait to get it going again, as its so nice out!!!

    Paul, I can't imagine going through that, with no brakes. A good friend of mine in High school, our sophomore year lost his brakes and hit another girl from our school at about 45mph, she was going 70mph. Needless to say 2 were killed and he survived. 2 others survived too, but they were all a real mess. He spent the next 6 months in a coma, and the next 18 months in rehab to learn how to talk and function again. He just passed away about 3 months ago at the old age of 27. We aren't sure of why, but with his history and what his body has been through its hard to say.

    But needless to say, I'm glad you weren't hurt Paul!!! This is why I replaced everything in the brake system. My buddy wouldn't get off my case about it, and I don't blame him!!! I hope to get to this soon as the weather is beautiful outside!
     
  8. Wolf

    Wolf Member

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    Update:

    Just got off the phone with CP, and they will exchange the part for me for free:D They are great guys down there. Every time I have a problem with one of there parts, which is not very often, they are more then willing to make it right with me.

    I simply called them today about the master cylinder troubles. I asked them if they carry a warranty with them or not. The guy asked me what my troubles where and said hang on a bit and let me go talk to the parts guys. Came back and said they haven't had any troubles with these, but they would be more then happy to exchange it for me!! They didn't have to do that. I bought this part in August of 08. Got it on the truck and going probably only 6 months or a yr ago.

    Anyways just wanted to say that they are going above and beyond in my site. Great to deal with!
     
  9. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Huck Brakes

    I'm glad to hear you're having a happy resolution .

    Things to check :

    The M/C pushrod is free to rattle if you shake it ~ VERY important ! .

    Lift the edge of the rubber dust boot on the M/C and look for dampness ~ if any , it's toast and leaking .

    What color is the brake fluid in the resivoir after you've been pumping it for a while ? if it turns black or muddy brown , the entire system needs to be flushed out RIGHT NOW else it'll fail again and Huck brakes are poor when new , no real room for error .

    if you flush , use ONLY alcohol or brake fluid ! .

    Next time , try " The Stick Trick " ~ it really does work :

    Wedge a stck between the seat and the brake pedal and leave it rest overnight , or longer .

    Remove the stick and allow to rest 5 minutes before touching the pedal again , it should now be rock hard .
     
  10. Zig

    Zig Member

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    I get an "F"

    I guess it would help if I read this stuff with BOTH eyes. New lines shouldn't spring a leak.
    :eek:
     
  11. Wolf

    Wolf Member

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    Thanks Nate! When the brakes where working, I was happy with the huck brakes. Stopped nice and true and I had a great pedal feel. Now not so much, but that is the story above... The fluid is all new. Nice and clean and crystal clear! That reminds me though I need to flush the brakes in my 96 Toyota, Fluid is getting pretty dark.

    I also did your pedal trick after the first time I bled the brakes. I can't figure out why it made the pedal more firm, but it sure did!! Thanks

    Not a problem Paul!!! I do the same thing all the time. I get to reading and I must skim over things and keep reading, im not sure how I do it but I do.

    Hope to have good news soon! Thanks guys
     
  12. Wolf

    Wolf Member

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    Ok update. My wonderful wife helped me bleed the brakes today with my new master cylinder from our host. They exchanged it for me for free!!! Anyways got it on, and proceeded to bleed the brakes. Right rear, left rear, right front, left front. Went through twice, got all the air out!!! 2nd time just to make sure. And it works perfect again.

    Adjusted the brakes all around, and now the pedal is high and tight. about 1" from the top and it grabs. I stoked to drive the truck again. A whole week without it and I was going crazy, just wanted to get in it and drive it.

    Now I somehow broke the drivers window, have had it half way down for 3 weeks, and i rolled it up and it had a nice crack in it, oh well, its on the outside pane, will get some new glass soon.

    Now on to get an exhaust. As mine is a straight pipe right behind the cab now, 1/2 of the muffler that was left rusted off. Its really not too loud at all. Im thinking on just a long glass pack, and two pipes coming out behind the rear tires. Hopefully that will help, and look good too:D
     
  13. JW 54

    JW 54 Member

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    Good news bad News. Glad to hear your brake problem is fixed. Sorry to hear about broken glass. Glass is minor and easy to fix, just time and a little finess. Exhaust not tough at all. As always one problem fixed, time to move on to the next. It never ends. ENJOY!!!!!!
    JW

    PS. What would we do without understanding helpfull wives?
     
  14. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Glass & Exhaust

    The glass rtends to crack when it's down and the door is slammed.

    Or , if the fuzzy track is worn , it'll sometimes stick asyou roll it up and crack then .

    Take the time to sand &re-paint the glass surround now , when the glass shop re-does it , it'll look nice .

    You don't need any muffler on Chevy 6 bangers , just a pipe . you can add a 'Y' and then have twice pipes out the back , will look and sounds nice .
     
  15. Wolf

    Wolf Member

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    Totally agree with you JW!! My wife is great too! Heck she bought me the truck!!! So true it never ends!


    The track and all the seals are new, just the glass wasn't. I will look at it soon hopefully and see what it will take to replace. No muffler on the Chevy 6 bangers, what about that mighty G:rolleyes: As you have said before its really not that loud. It has a smooth nice note to it I think anyways. Sounds like a 52 I6 engine to me. But I was hoping to soften it up a bit with the glass pack and the most important part for me is to get that exhaust as far back and way from the cab as I can! Maybe I will just have them do the pipes, then add the glass pack later.... decisions decisions:cool:
     
  16. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Exhaust

    That's the deal :

    The soft cam timing makes for a pleasant , musical exhaust note .

    Try it with the twice pipes only .

    A glass pack will only make it louder and sharper .

    *IF* you don't like it unmuffled (so far , never had one complaint yet) come back here and i'll tell you what muffler to use .

    Good night .
     
  17. Wolf

    Wolf Member

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    Nate. Thanks for the tips with the glass packs. I had them on my 350 chevy motor with aggressive cam. Motor was putting out 350+ HP easy. Sounded great with the glass packs. The motor was really deep and thoaty. I have heard glass packs on other trucks and it made me wanna gag, sharp and high pitched, just didn't like it at all.

    So I am a little leary of using the glass packs. What muffler would you suggest besides the straight pipes. I am still thinking it would be too loud for my taste. Rigth now it is straight piped, but out right behid the cab. I still would like it to be a bit quieter, once I run them out the back.

    So what muffler would you recomend?
     
  18. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Proper Exhaust

    HAS to run out behind the vehicle else it'll thrum and make too much noise no matter what muffler you put on it....

    If you like a deep bark , take the time to find a 40" or longer glasspack .

    If you like a nice musical tone , just run a long open pipe .

    If you like a deep and fairly quiet sound , get the Dodge pickup 318 V-8 muffler from say , mid 1990's Dakota ~ it has a nice sound and not much back pressure .

    I used one on my old 1967 Porsche 912 and was quite pleased with it as was everyone else .

    They're oval shaped .
     

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