Okay~ so I was spending quality time with my truck. (The sun came out after dumping almost 12 inches of rain on us this month- not complaining, just in awe.) The sun was illuminating those "hardly used" looking springs, and all I could think of was- I want to get this front end lower. Not bumper scuffing low, but lower by about 2". I thought about what Nate had said about taking a couple of leafs (leaves?) out. Naturally, the next thing I know, there's a hammer and a screw driver in my hands. The bottom, wedge leaf comes right off. The next one doesn't cooperate at all. So now I'm thinkin' again. Maybe this is God's way of saying, "ZIG! What do you think you're doing NOW?!" and I thought~ that's a darn good question! Here I am dinkin' around like I know what I'm doing WITHOUT asking this mighty brain trust first. So here I am. Might someone tell me that IF you were to remove a leaf (or two) is there a best leaf or two to remove? (Front end springs) And I assume that you'd put the small wedge shaped "starter" leaf back on, since it is angled and that has, no doubt, a purpose. While I'm at it, has anyone used the disc conversion kits for the front end of these, and if so, how do you like them/what do you think of them. Do the original wheels still work? I assume I could drop the front a tad further by using slightly smaller tires? Your help and refrained snickering is greatly appreciated!
The wedge is for the caster camber, so you need to keep those. I think I would try taking one out at a time and see what happens. Replace your center bolts. I'm thinking(oh no!) that if you take out to many leaves you might have a bottoming out problem. Have you considered mono leaves? I think they will lower your front about 3" with a good ride. Bad thing cost about 400.00.. Chris
Chris, I agree with you. But, i think we have a fundamental engineering problem here. Right now, Zig will not have a load on the front end if he's rebuilding the new frame without the engine, front cap, cab etc. I'm thinking that you should remove a couple of the smallest leafs (leaves) because they would be more rigid and save the longer ends for smoothness of ride and more sag. However, that may pose a problem too, depending on the condition of the leafs themselves. If each opposing spring is not equally "worn out", don't you run the risk of the front end listing to one side? Remember that these are 50 some-odd year old springs. 2 remedies. Rebuild it completely (engine in, sheetmetal, etc) and then remove a spring at a time until you get the desired drop, or remove a couple now with no load and replace the shocks with air shocks that can be inflated individually until the front end sits level. Oh, and by the way, Zig. I was joking about the "refraining from snickering" comment. You're the best brother from another mother I never had!!!
Seems that the springs on the driver side are always collaped more, Ken. I've seen a few trucks that have been lowered by removing leaves. None have left me with thinking I'll do that to my truck. Just my opinion of course, but I think the mono leaves are the way to go. Chris
See? This is good! This is really good! God- I'd hate to think of me out there on my lonesome trying to pull all your expert knowledge out of the passing clouds! I am SO glad to have this site! ...not that there hasn't been an abundance of passing clouds! I would not consider going the single leaf- mono leaf- route. Spring breaks~ good luck! ('course, after seeing the stuff people pull, heck- take out all the leafs and let me whittle a bango strap out of good ol' hickry!) Sag- lowering- whatever you want to call it, I want to see if I can do it- SAFELY. These springs were made by someone paid to figure load, stress, fatigue. Maybe they were designed by someone who like GMC doughnuts and coffee. (Let me draw another leaf or two and I can scarf another doughnut and two coffees!) Was/is it American "over-engineering"? I always wear my seatbelt and NEVER go on "thrill" rides because I know about building and "failure". So- I want your opinions and will decide what to do because o you. I could buy new springs, "If I were a rich man, yabadabadabado" But I'm not. so... Thanks for ALL your comments/suggestions! Remember! There is a very good chance, once I get this sucker rollin' - WHICH I WILL- I will roll into your town to say thanks and thanks! And then will have a glass of good box (red~ cabernet) wine
The BEST advice I've seen so far Zig is when Ken said to have the truck loaded, engine tranny sheet metal and all. If the truck is not loaded down to driving weight then how will you ever know how far down it's really gonna sit plus everything changes with weight. You truly can't even do an accurate alignment on any vehicle unless it is loaded down with the weight that it is driven at daily. So with this said wait until you have the truck weighted down before you go lowering your truck. The beauty of the way I'm lowering mine is I can raise it back up with the push of a button! Also they are right when saying that every leaf is in there for a reason. Whether it is bottoming out or just straight highway stabilizatoin. But you can always counter act the removal with a good air shock that you can adjust with a handy air hose. Just a few thoughts to put into your head.
Zig, little bro, time for an editorial! The only time we, as hobbiests, entusiasts, get in trouble, is when we decide that those who engineered it aren't as smart as us. Stop and think! There are an abundance of AD's out there today, some in our garages, some out in fields! Why? Because they were well designed, and well put together! Everything from the '30's on, was over-engineered, but no body but the rich could afford them, hence the magnicent machines that Bill and I saw last Sunday. We've always had the technology, but the average "Joe" couldn't afford it. You can't fool Mother Nature! If you jack with something long enough, it will break! Think about that when you decide to modify anything! Specs and tolerances are there for a reason. Tweak 'em, stretch them, but don't abuse them. If you do, they WILL bite you on the a$$.
Thoughts in MY Head??? How dare you! I forgot to mention- my love is not that far along. She sits with full steel, only absent her front axle, steering gear. The original springs are up on blocks, but that's because the weight/tension has it to where if I don't block them, I can't get my jack out. Not good. So, while it's all hanging there- frame secured by a truck load of "you ain't goin' nowhere, springs secured by "just enough to keep 'em up" ( not the V-pill) That's what I've got to look at- That's what I've got to play with. I ain't doin' nothing else to my ride until I have my temporary axle and 6 lug wheels screwed back on! Then I'll start taking all the extra stuff off. Moving the cab, removing the steering~ Oh yeah- I'll be here! Thanks so far guys!
I agree Ken that when you mess with things then it can go south in a hurry. But that's when you be smart and TRY and think of every possible scenario and if you can still plan it out safely, then do it. So if you take out leafs then counter act with a stiffer shock or an air shock to compensate for what you took out. Zig, get that truck where it can stand there on it's own four wheels, then start removing leafs and sitting it back on the ground until you've got it where you want it. But that's just my opinion.
With shakey voice he says... but what about when I suggested putting a 1/2 ton axle under a 3/4 ton frame? No one said "WHAT?!" I have a beautifully stripped 1/2 ton axle that is just a 1/4" shy of it's 3/4 ton friend. Is this engineered? I think so, but ask any structural person- we over engineer everything because of law suits. Back when these were being born, we made things bigger because we could. I believe I even read Nate as saying take a leaf or two out. Eaton said the beauty of leafs is if one breaks- one breaks. If you have a mono, well... I don't plan on driving down potholed roads. Ever! However, you never no when there might be something in the road of a "smooth highway". I'm thankfull for ALL your input, and hope this reaches 3 pages- cause it's a decission I'm fightin' with in a big way. I want to drop down 2", but not kill myself in doing it. Eaton springs- leaf removal? It'll be years before my daughter gets behind the wheel, so It'll be all on me to be the test pilot. I have SOME driver savy, so keep the comments coming, and know I appreciate them all!
PS- You posted that while I was thinkin' mine out- Thanks for your opinion, Kevin- that's what I'm looking for. The honest truth. This is for everyone else- I know removing a leaf or two won't kill me- May scare the bejesus out of me, but~ I just want your- everyone's- opinion. That is what is so invaluable about this site. Believe me, when I'm done with mine, I may have an area of rebuild that I can help someone as green as I am. It's a good thing! By the way I said GREEN- not HopSing! Speakin' of Green- Sorry Miami... I like Trent, but...
we're saying the same thing! Innovation, thinking outside the box, is what got us here. My only point is: make damn sure that it's structurally solid: down vectors equal up vectors, side stress inward equals side stress outward, that weird chinese circle thing is still round, cheech and chong inhale and exhale in perfect harmony. You guys know the drill!
Hold on! Let's all give a "baseball grab" south of our beltlines and check Eaton out. They have good advice about mono VS leaf. Matter of fact, their article about mono-up-front made me swear off of them before I even tried! ...and then "Patricks" quit carrying them... (Unreliable?) -not unlike my witty humor- Don't forget, I also think I can loose some stance by smaller tire size. (Although I'd hate for my manly truck to have to endure any unneeded snickering over "SUCH a small shoe..." Especially when driver has a.... There is that pin issue. There is a socket in the axle that accepts the pin. If you take off a couple-o-leafs, what do you do with that big old pin hangin' down? I'm guessing I'll need a grinder- and a moment alone- to turn that pin back into a little stud? Really- I'm sorry for my prose. I really am thankful for yours, however.
By the way, Chris... Anyone who has an avatar that shows a GMC head-on has MY vote! I know one thing- I'm not the only one that has a 3/4 that would like to squish it down a bit. With y'all's help- when this is all over, I'll be able to say you were right! One way or the other.
Zig: I've been staying out of this conversation because I don't have specific 3/4 ton or AD experience. Too late, I'm in it now. My 1/2 ton '57 GMC was originally equipped with the extra-heavy duty 8 leaf front springs. GMC also offered 6 and 7 leaf front springs. Counting from the shortest, I removed spring # 2 and #4. Dropped the front end about 1.5". The "pin" in my '57 is actually a bolt, round head down to engage the hole in the axle. It had plenty of thread to allow for the 1/2" thinner spring pack. I made sure that full extension and rebound would not be limited by the shock's maximum compression or extension. Didn't change the ride characteristics a lot. Drove it that way for about 5 years, then noticed that the driver's side was sitting an inch or so lower than the passenger's side. Decided to go with Eaton replacements. They were very knowledgable and quick to deliver. They can wrap the spring eye in either direction, which on TF models (don't know about ADs) gives a quick 1.5" drop. They knew enough to ask me if I wanted the 6, 7 or 8 leaf spring. I settled for the 6 leaf.
Listen closely to Bill . I cannot figure out how anyone drives a lowered truck as I bottom out my unladen '49 3100 series Chevy with brandy new front springs all the time...
Leaf springs The thing I find most ironic, is that I keep hearing how unsafe mono leaf springs are, in that if it breaks, you're in trouble. Has anyone ever looked at a set of leaf springs? Any leaf springs? They ALL mount using only the 1 main spring. They all still rely on the main spring holding up. The others are used to help distribute the load, and take away the harshness. I am running monoleafs on mine, with good high pressure gas shocks, and have yet to bottom out on anything, despite the limited clearance. It does ride a bit stiffer, due to the single thick spring, and limited travel though. Also keep in mind that the steering setup on these trucks does not lend well to lowering the suspension in the front. It puts the drag link at an angle which results in bump steer. There are ways to fix that, but it takes modifying, and should be done with caution. I also would not recommend lowering much if you plan on towing, or hauling, unless you go with IFS. As for front discs, I am using them, with a power booster, and they work well. I have 16 inch wheels, and have no clearance issues, but you may want to contact CPP, or the like to verify, before buying. Sorry for rambling, just wanted to add my 2 cents.......Mike P.S., Nate have you tried a set of good HIGH presssure gas shocks on your truck? Doesn't seem right it should bottom out that much, as they were made to carry weight. Just a thought.
