My estimates are running $1,900 to $2,400 for people around here to do the work, and that is me pulling the motor (which Son & I have done). O'Rielly's has rebuilt long blocks for $1,100 (235) and $1,109 (261). The 235's are milled 10/10,000's in the cylinder, rods and mains. The parts man said this would equate to maybe a 261 and should not cause it to heat up excessively. The 261's may or may not be milled. Prices includes shipping and the pickup is farm use (no sales tax). My engine was using/leaking a quart every 100 miles, so I question the quality of this motor (a 235). It was also overheating on hot days, 65mph. I know the quality of an assembly line motor is not as good as one locally re-done, but the pickup will not be a daily driver and I am on a budget (plus it will aways drive like an old truck). Comments please. KentC
Just an FYI, when I was considering buying my 49 1/2 ton chevy and knew the engine might not last, I called J..C...... and asked what they would charge for a "crate 235 engine cira 1954-59" (they advertised selling a long and short block). They said they would send me one for $2400 and shipping. I don't remember what they said about a warrenty.
O'Reilly's priced the 235/261 for me, but when it came time to maybe buy they had none in stock. Calling around I inquired about sleeves, if that ended up being the case of need for my old motor (it has a healthy ridge where the pistons stops in the cylinder). No one carries them - the machine shops carry their own generic brand, any problems doing this? I was quoted $55 a cylinder, if it needed it, on a case by case basis. Ownward I go. kentc
I'd say , go over to the Task Force pages and take your time and write all the guys who've pulled out thier 235's for a V-ate ~ often you can find a rebuilt 235 with low miles for under $500.00 ~ it doesn't matter how much they're asking nor how old the post is ~ NO ONE wants 235s ! . as much as 5 years later (!) the old 235 is usually still siting in the garage under a tarp.... Re-sleeving cylinders works well too if you decide to have it done locally . You could pick up the average old smoky , leaky 235 takeout and maybe have your local trade school re-build it for the cost of parts... takes the whole season though . I overhauled the '56 235 on my old '46 shop truck on a serious budget , it has .016" taper in the cylinders (that's a LOT) , reamed the ridge and replaced the three cracked pistons , it ran fine and didn't use a lot of oil either . I'd be amazed to see a factory rebuilt 235 that wasn't bored to at least .030" With carefull breakin and proper operation , most any rebuilt should be fine . I find the # 1 thing is to properly bed in the new piston rings , this takes fortitude and belief as it's noisy and will scare the bejeebers out of you the first time you try it but it does work , few people properly bed in their piston rings properly and so there's too much blowby forevermore , this causes not only oil consumption bt oil _leaks_ from the now pressurized crankcase too .
On this webpage, I go to the Parts-For-Sale pages and see nothing there, this is I am assuming the Task Force pages. I do not know what "bed" the rings are? Looking at my manual, the 235 cylinder mic tolerance is 3.5620 to 3.5640. What is the maximum that a 235 cylinder can be bored before it must have sleeves put in? Usually, does a shade tree mechanic have to have micrometers to overhaul an engine, or just let the machine shop do it. I notice some on ebay, that are still not cheap. What is the minimum tools to do the job - at torque wrench and a ring compressor? Thank you. Kent
Engine Overhaul The piston rings must be seated or ' bedded in ' ~ this means fitted to the cylinder bore so they affect a tight seal to reduce combustion gasses leaking past , known as ' blow by ' . This is done upon initial startup after replacing them . As far as measuring taper , it can easily be done with feeler gauges and the old pistons, just measure the gap between the cylinder wall and the crown of the piston , just below the ridge and again at the bottom of the cylinder , the differance will be the amount of taper . I never bore over .030" as sometimes the core shifted when they were originally pouring the block so boring larger than that and you -may- (not will) run into cylinder wall dropout problems . Simple overhaul of the 235 engine can be done with nothing more special than a good torque wrench . it depends on what you start with ~ a good running engine that had oil pressure @ idle but smoked & leaked ? good candidate for an in frame overhaul , this is what GM was thinking of when they designed these engines ~ farmers and poor folks doing field repairs & overhauls . Replace any pistons that look bad and be prepared to drop serious $ into the cylinder head , _after_ you have it magnafluxed for cracks .
Buying Used 235's Oh yeah ~ skip the classifieds and go look in the '55 ~ '59 boards , look for guys talking about thier hot rods , those are the guys who take out good running 235's , they'll often ask for $800.00 but that's just blowing smoke up your skirt ~ take some time and read older posts back a year or more and ask those guys as they'll usually drop out for pimples ~ like $150.00 for a complete engine , fan to clutch , usually with the tranny included . if it's a used engine , don't pay a dime unless you compression test it 1st. ! Low milage rebuilts will be obvious when you look at them , no black crud inside the rockerbox , clean(ish) exterior , not having 40 + year old peeling paint and so on....
Okay Nate, What is the proper and actual procedure for bedding in a new set of rings and why is it so noisy and scary? Andy
Andy, I've read your questions too many times today with a grin on my face, so here goes! First, you get her drunk, (she's already got the rings), then you whisper in her ear...Why it is noisy and scary? Well, i think we get the picture...Always remember, great minds, like bowling balls, run in the same gutter! I apologize in advance if I have offended anyone.
That is just tooo funny. LOL. I have been laughing for ten minutes. NOW I know the proper procedure!!!
Proper Breakin Ken , you naughty boy ! I wasn't talking about " Rodeo Sex " (anyone wants to know what that is , just ask , you may be offended) So : proper piston ring bedding in is the same as bedding in a new camshaft & lifters... Engine all assembled and buttoned up , valves properly adjusted & the engine _must_ be pre-oiled by removing Distributor and turning the oil pump untill oil comes out the rocker arm weep holes . Set the timing static to ball & pointer , fill carby with fuel , connect tachometer and have a stop watch or any clock with a sweep second hand on your wrist or propped up where you can see it along with look at the tachometer , start the engine and the _instant_ it lights off you immediately rev. it up to 3,500 RPM and -HOLD- it there for one full minute ~ this is where the tachometer comes into play along with the sweep second hand as time will seem to slow down as your $2,000.00 + rebuild is howling away next to your ear...... this is the scary part for the NOOB , trust me . no revving nor blipping of the throttle is permissable ! hold it at 3,500 RPM's for the full minute then snap the throttle shut , allow to idle for a moment and shut it off , allow to _fully_ cool before re-starting and the check the timing and set idle mixture etc. NOTE : it may smoke a bit as you're doing this but the smoke _will_ stop once the engine has cooled won and you re-start it . NOTE : if you have installed a new or (God forbid) re-ground cam & lifters , there will be a tag in the cam box tellng you what RPM's to use , follow that guide as the cam is harder to properly " work harden " correctly so the RPM's are critical there . I know you think I'm a nut but BMW and Lycoming Textron (aircraft) both specify this on ALL rebuilt engines as does Honda in thier CART racing engines It takes a serious leap of faith to do this but it works , you'll have far less blowby and the piston rings will last nearly forever . The high unloaded engine speed causes the increased gas pressure to push the rings out against the cylinder walls , bedding them in quickly . Proper cylinder prep is important to ~ if the cylinder is glazed but not scored you need not hone it nor run a ball in them , _do_ wash the cylinders with soap and water untill a white paper towel comes out perfectly clean after wiping the dry cylinder . assemble pistons & rings into the cylinder _dry_ ~ NO OIL .
Yeah Nate, I've done it countless times, just never heard it referred to as "bedding in". Always knew it as breaking in the fresh rebuild. It's pretty scary and smoky. I always did it for 5 minutes, but I like your one minute version better. Would you do the same for a fresh set of rings on an engine that was NOT completely rebuilt? You mentioned a budget rebuild earlier in this thread where you replaced a couple pistons and rings, etc. on an engine with lots of taper. Did you check the main and rod bearings on that engine and did you break in or "bed" the new piston rings on that engine as well? I'm looking at a budget rebuild myself unless I find a better engine to go with. My truck still has no motor and I'm still looking for that hot-rodder who is getting rid of his. Missed the one in CT by minutes (I am still pissed-off about that one). Andy Andy
Budget Overhaul Yes , I do it this way every time , every engine . I've even done it to re-use used piston rings in one instance ~ I didn't expect it to work then but it did . The cylinders get pretty hot so I stick to the one minute and allow to _fully_ cool off before re-starting it routine since that seems to work out well . On that 235 in my old '46 I replaced the rod bearings but not the mains as it had good oil pressure before I took it apart . The cylinders had a LOT of taper (.016"" IIRC) but I was under the tutalege of an old Chevy dealer mechanic back then and he assured me I needn't worry about the shiny , glazed cylinders I could have used for mirrors , he was right , as always . I like and use , chrome rings in these overhauls . In a 235 , any pressure indicated @ hot idle , is sufficient since the cam bearings are usually worn & loose , allowing most of the oil pressure to leak away , this is why the crank will not wear but there's no oil to the top end on older , tired engines .
Hi Nate, Found a guy in Maryland (5 hour drive) that took the 235 out of his '58 two years ago. He put in a V-ate (as you say). The 235 has been in his garage ever since taking up space. Nicest guy you could ever want to talk to. Motor was running fine when he took it out. Am picking it up this weekend. My truck now has an engine . I remember reading a previous thread where you outlined how to prepare an engine that has been laying around for a while. Something about Marvel Mystery Oil as I remember, but I can't find the thread. I remember you saying to put Marvel in the cylinders (how much?), adjusting the valves, but not much else. Can you go over that procedure again? Thanks Andy
Hey Andy, congrats on the new baby! the thread you're looking for is "New owner needs some help" (slugbug post)
Andy's '58 235 Cool ! see ? I tolja there's a sh*tload of these good engines just lying about in garages... Re-torquing the head before adjusting the valves is prolly a wise idea , then follow the other recomendations , FRESH OIL before you ever turn it and replace that oil in 50 miles , re-check the valve adjustment and dwell/timing in 500 , 1,000 & 3,000 mile increments then you can go to annual (or 10,00 mile) timing & valve adjustments and 3,000 mile HOT oil changes , if you're not using it much , at least every 6 months change the oil . DO take the time to find a magnetic oil drain plug or if you're in cow country , get a cow magnet and stick it inside the rockerbox where it meets the head and cannot move and touch valves , pushrods etc. I'd put this engine on a stand and wire brush it then de-grease it and scrape all the little nooks & crannies , more wire brushing with de-greaser , wash off using a toothbrush then rinse it with two cans of Ether (engine starting fluid) allow to dry then shoot it with meduim grey paint , add valve cover decals to suit your taste (there's a bunch of different ones to choose from) , spray the acessories black and install , it'll look great when it's all back to-gether tho' you'll have a few " what the HECK am I doing ? " moments when that big old 235 is a solid grey lump in your garage sans acessories . Remember , the oil filler cap must be the vented typ , getting hard to find these days but available if you look in the AC catalog @ your FLAPS or soak your old one clean , paint glossy black and install the cool repop AC decal to it for that finishing touch . Keep us posted .
Kent, you contacted me through the private message thing but with my usual computer skill (zero) I just get an "error occured" alert when I tried to answer. There are several old dead 235's at my shop including one in the leftover chassis after an S10 conversion that if you want to strap a seat to the frame and don't mind bugs on your teeth you can actually drive it down the road.
Hey guys, I took Nate's advise and went to the '55-'59 chat room and started a new thread looking for a 235 for my truck. The next morning, this guy in Maryland replies that he has this motor in his garage since he took it out of his '58 two years ago. This is old news. Yesterday I drove 13 hours there and back and picked it up. He is the nicest guy in the world. He threw a bunch of parts at me that he wasn't using and the engine was complete from the fan to the tailshaft of the trans. Best thing about the deal is that it was FREE. He tried to sell in when he took it out, but nobody bit and it was taking up space. He told me that at least his well running 235 would go to a good home instead of the junkyard. I was only too happy to take him up on the offer. Got a question though. Still waiting for my shop manuals. This 235 has side mounts in the front for the motor mounts. I look in my truck and see a spot on the front cross member for a central mount. There doesn't seem to be any provision for a central mount on the plate behind the timing cover on my engine. How does the whole thing mount up in the front anyway? I had a 1940 Olds with an inline 8 in it that just sat on a rubber mount in the front. Does this do a similiar thing? the mounts I see for sale look just like a rubber block with a plate. How does it work and how do I mount this motor up in my truck? Andy
AD Front Motor Mount Andy ; There's a plate on the front of a 216 that extends and has the front motor mount provision , when you upgrade to a 235 you're supposed to swap the plate over , the lower two bolts that hold it on are from _inside_ the engine out so you must needs remove the oil pan to acess them . look in the archives for info on reilling & tapping these two bolt holes whilst the engine is out . Get the 216 front plate from pretty much any old 216 engine... Should be a dead 216 for free somewhere's near you... The side mounts were added in.....'55 IIRC on the Task Force series , works well but is vastly different than our old floating front mount AD's .
Nate, You're telling me that all these guys with 235's in their trucks had to switch their front plates with a 216 front plate? Didn't these trucks come stock with 235's? If so, can't I just get the plate off a 235 that used to be in an AD truck? Anyway, I get it. The plate in question goes between the timing cover and the front of the block, yes? There is a plate there now with some kind of flange/extension on it at the bottom. It can't be modified to fit AD front mount? I was right, wasn't I? The front of the engine just sits on the mount, doesn't it? No bolts holding it down or nothing, right? My Olds had an upper mount that fit over the lower rubber mount and sat on it without being bolted to anything. Is this setup similiar to that? Andy
