So, I'm a newbie here. I recently purchased a '51 3-window Chevy. As can be expected, it's a little worse for wear. The body is good, and for the most part all the pieces are there, so what the heck! Anyway, a few simple questions to get me started on my path of no return. First, since the truck is currently all together, I figure I may as well try to get it running. I've worked on V-8 Chevys, but not the 235 that sits in the truck right now. Previous owner stated it is a '59 235 out of a car. So, that's my starting point. I'm getting the carb rebuilt by the local mechanic (he loves carbs), but the rest will be up to me. Any ideas to help out in starting one of these for the first time in 10 years? I plan on draining the fuel tank, replacing a few rubber lines, changing the oil and filter, filling it with coolant, and swapping out the spark plugs and points/cap/rotor. Anyone know off-hand what oil filter, fuel filter, and spark plugs a 235 uses? I haven't checked the local auto parts store, but I don't always trust their books. So if you guys might know that would be a good step in the right direction. Also, what should the timing be for such an engine? Ballpark will work, just want to have an idea. I doubt the engine will last long, but it will certainly do for the time being. It's been in the truck since '69, and that's alot of years of service, and I'm not sure how well maintained it has been...It doesn't even have an air cleaner. Second, it appears the bed is crooked on the truck. I see the bed was mounted on wood blocks. Can I just order those from Chevy Duty and that's all there is to it? No adjustments or anything like that is there? Third, I'd like to go through the brakes before heading out (that's a no-brainer on this truck). What's the easiest way to go about doing them, as in any good sources for them? I'm contemplating a swap to disc brakes and the power master cylinder from Chevy Duty (I had one of those old single line master cylinders go out on me...no thanks, never again!). I don't want to do anything twice (since I really don't need to with this truck). Tho, I may just install the master cylinder and new drums all the way around...I guess that shouldn't cost too much $$. Fourth and final for the evening, any thoughts on how to lower the truck just a little bit? I'm not into the slammed look, but would like to bring it down maybe 2" in the front and 4" in the rear. How would that work with the original wheel/tire setup? I'm used to just buying lowering springs, but I want to know if it's just that easy for this pickup. Thanks in advance!
if it hasn't been cranked in over 10 years, chances are good that something is probably going to be stuck. i'd remove the spark plugs and squirt some Marvel Mystery oil in the cylinders, remove the valve cover and squirt some on the rocker arms, etc and then walk away for a couple days. I don't know about 235 push rods, but 216 push rods kinda suck when you try to crank a motor with a couple of stuck valves. they look and operate better straight than they do bent! If it were me, after doing that, i'd wait for Nate's advise and go from there.
Reviving An Old Engine ' SlugBug ' eh ? I've been into air cooled VW's since the 1960's.... Still have a backyard full of them . Anyway , we're a freindly bunch here so please sign your posts with your first name or handle if you want more and better replies . lessee , 235 Chevy hum ? about the _best_ engine GM ever built , you'll have it purring like a kitten in short order... Adjust the valves 1st. , they're always tight ~ once you get it running , they'll need re-checking once the engine is fully warmed up . Intakes to about .012" exhaust to .020" as you'll be running this engine hard on to-day's roads so they need to be a bit looser . If you do a compression test , don't freak out when several cylinders have like 65 # , they'll come up after you get the engine running and the valves and rings bed in again , this is why it'll need several short (500 ~ 1,000 mile) valve adjustments before going back to annual valve adjustments , it'll run just fine with near zero compression in two cylinders too or belching great white clouds of smoke ~ GM knew these engines were going into rough service with poor folks and they really outdid them selves in the design . You have a dwell meter ? . set dwell to 33 degrees by removing the spark plugs and cranking it , dizzy cap off and adjust on the fly " dynamically" to compensate for dizzy bushing wear . Timing on these old tech wonder engines is simple if wierd: just above the starter is a little window you can see the flyweel through , shine a bright light and you'll see a fixed pointer facing down ~ that's the stationary timing mark , when the engine is running , the timing mark is a steel ball bearing or BB pressed into a hole in the flywheel ~ idle the engine as slow as it'll go and align the ball and pointer and you're good to go , the dizzy has a pinch clamp with a goofy slotted screw in it to loosen so you can rotate the entire dizzy , never mind the 1/2" bolt holding the advance unit to the block ~ that's an octane selector to be used in the field if you get a bad tank of fuel or vacation to Mexico etc. (you wanted an old truck , this it it !) set that in the middle of it's adjustment before setting the ignition timing . If the flywheel scatter pan is gone missing (join the crowd) you can easily wire brush the timing marks and then highlight them with a bit of white paint on a paper match to faciliatate seeing the timing marks the engine whilst it's running . You'll also find some faint stamped in chevrons or a triangle , this is the TDC mark , not used much but good to have highlited in case you remove the dizzy for some reason . You should follow Ken's good advice and use a pump oiler to squirt some fresh oil on the valve setms between the springs so they don't stick as you begin turning the engine . DO change the oil before you try to start it . NAPA and others have the cannister oil filters , I'm out of the shop so no books handy , two main types of oil filters on these old rigs , AC & Fram ,one is 5" and t'other is 7" IIRC , the book (even @ Pep Boys) will list them under 1962 Chevy 235 . Brakes , you're in luck ~ the '51 is the very first year of improved Bendix brakes , same as used on 6 lug Chevy pickups through 1967 so parts are cheap & plentiful , resist the urge to turn the drums tho ' . I've heard the 1970 Mustang master cylinder for Non-power brake cars is a simple upgrade but I DON'T KNOW THIS ~ I have been told by several others you'll need to split the brake lines at the 'T' fitting on the frame to the left of the MC and run some new , short lines . Replace all rubber bits and hoses in the brake system . sticky parking brake cables ? the re-pops suck (badly) so soak your old ones in a shallow pan of anit-freeze to lubricate for life . Lower a bit by removeing one leaf out of each spring pack , if you just grease the spring bushings , the truck will usually go down a few inches within a month or two of just driving it , they're 53 years old after all . it runs now ? gear . you're worried because the oil pressure gauge is on 0 whilst idling and only goes up to 12 # at speed ? not to worry ! as long as the oil pressure gauge reads _any_ pressure at all with the engine running , the engine is fine . Really . Sometimes the needle is on the peg , others it'll be -so- close you'll have to lean in close to see it hovering barely off the peg @ idle , keep it full of your choice of good quality oil and it'll be good to go . Remove the oil cap and peer in at the rockers , oil should dribble out of the weep holes in each rocker , might need to rev. it a bit to make it weep . More questions ? ask away .
Air cooled VWs were my first lesson in mechanics. They paid off! If anything they helped to learn that an older car needs constant attention...and after lying on my back I-don't-know-how-many-times adjusting valves one could say I'm well broken-in to that fact. Still have one back at my dad's place...a cherry '71 Super Beetle. Rust free and restored back to stock (with a little drop in the front). To this day that car amazes me...even cruised at 70 and got 30 mpg. Not bad at all! Back to the truck... Good info on valve settings and timing issues. I would have never known about the octane selector. Nifty little gizmo I suppose. Still have a dwell meter from the VW days, so that'll come in handy. Oil...what weight should I use? Obviously no 0W-30, but would straight 30W or 10W-40 be a good choice? Any idea what group of battery fits the battery box? Going to need one of them to get going. It is 12V already... Starter...the original foot starter has disappeared. I'm hoping that wasn't necessary to start the truck. I'm assuming they put a different ignition switch in the truck. Since I have no idea, how did that starter pedal work anyway? I always wanted a vehicle with one of those... The brakes will have to be another time...I only have a few days back home (2000 miles away) to get it running. But, I will keep the advice in mind. Never turned a drum, and don't turn the discs on my '69 Caprice. Haven't found a replacement set, so once mine are gone that's it! Nice thing is with the organic pads the wear is minimal...besides, it's a cruiser, not a car to be hard on the brakes anyway... Andy
Let The Flames Begin ! Oil ? you must not know about oil threads no matter what anyone says , they're wrong and flame wars begin You can run any modern oil in this thing and it will be magnatudes better that the parrifn based crap it had when new . If you like straight 30W , use it . If you like 5W-30 , use that . I use 10W-30 as I don't like the excessivly long polymer chain of the 10W-40 and I think the thinner oil getting up out of the pan ASAP upon initial startup is critical to long enigne life . (but then what the hell do I know) Synthetic oils are simply fabulous but they tend to ' creep ' or wick out of any possible place and since these engine were not oil tight when new , your engine will be damper with synthetic oils , of course synthetic oils will stop all wear dead , right where it is now and the engine will not ever wear out , ever , no , nyet , period so that's a choice you can make . Brakes have _two_ adjusters per wheel , jack up and block the truck well (NO CINDERBLOCKS !) , grab either a brake spoon or (my favorite) a stubby flat bladed screwdriver and scoot underneath , you'll see the two adjuster slots on the backing plate , one on each side of the brake cylinder , the idea is : you want to unscrew the adjuster star off the bolt holding thre brake shoe , this should explain wich way to turn it . Like any other manual brake adjuster , you work the adjuster whilst turning the wheel with your other hand , radio _OFF_ and listen for the shoes begin to touch the drums untill it just barely makes that SH , Sh sound as it begins to touch ~ STOP and move on to the next adjuster , you _don't_ want a lot of drag ! the initial adjustment might take 25 ~ 30 or even more clicks per adjuster and then in 75 miles of driving the brake pedal will be back down again , this is normal and O.K. as the shoes will bed in simply re-adjust them again . most folks _never_ adjust the brakes and so they wear unevenly , I had to re-adjust the brand new shoes on my '49 shop truck 7 ~ 8 times before they stayed in adjustment , now I take up like one click per adjuster every month or two . It works just like your old Super Beetle . Master cylinder is under a round rubber plug on the floor , right where your heel goes . _always_ sweep out the cab with the counter brush you keep lying on the floor tucked back against the seat base before removing the plug and checking / adding brake fluid . it takes DOT 3 or 4 brake fluid . DO check it now and them every few months as these rigs tend to use a little bit . Someone lost your counter brush ? the .99 CENTS store has them , get the fine bristled one as it'll sweep better A BCI Group 26 battery should fit the box if it's 12 volts , else a group 1 for the 6 volt ,consider an Optima battery , they're more costly but really pack a _LOT_ of cranking amps into that tiny space , you'll need to shim it up from wobbling 'round and ensure the battery cables aren't chafed or worn out . BTW : 6 -or- 12 volts , both battery cables should be 0 or 1 gauge , this means as big around as your thumb ~ if they're not , or you have one of those stupid " add a clamp " cable repair thingies , junk 'em NOW , any FLAPS will be able to order you up some new ones in the proper gauge or a welding supply shop will very cheaply solder you up a set in nifty black and red using welding cables , that really passes the Amps to ensure quick starts hot or cold . the ground cable _MUST_ be connected to the tranny or engine block , NOT the frame ! . measure what you need for cables them buy new or hunt up good used (remember , big , FAT ones) from the junkyard or swap meet , measurements are from clamp center to lug center on the far end . Over the years , many folks removed the foot starter and installed the starter from a passenger car , if you want to take it back you'll need to find the linkage off some old junker engine and the starter must match the flywheel ! pedal starters were used up through the end of the 1959 model year in trucks so ordering the starter from a '59 should fit your '60 235 . Unless of course , your truck is still 6 volts , then you prolly have the old 216 flywheel bolted to your newer 235 engine and it'll want the correct '51 6 volt starter.... isn't this fun ? . How the pedal starter worked was simple : you stepped on a pedal that was connected to the Bendix and that manually shoved it into the ring gear then at the very last bit of travel , the linkage depressed a simple button contact switch on the top of the starter to pass current to it and it began cranking . Fun began when dufus gas station guy repleced the switch and didn't align it correctly so the starter would begin to spin before the Bendix was engauged.. Did this windy message help ? . Let the oil flames begin !
I had hoped the oil question wouldn't spark a huge debate (seen it go downhill on other message boards). Your answer was all that I was looking for. Just a simple, "yeah, that'd work". Maybe we'll all get lucky and that's as far as this one will go. Foot starter is another interesting gizmo. Hmm, may have to try and find one of those. Thanks for all the info, I'm going to have to print this out and hang it on the wall next to the truck! So, the more I look at the truck the more questions I seem to have. I was going to ask about the rubber plug in the floorboard, but guess that's the master cylinder so that question is answered. So, how about this question. What was the throttle knob on the dash used for? I get the manual choke, but have never seen a manual throttle (well, other than the gas pedal!). I'll have to go check out a battery for this beast. Why not connect the ground to the frame and then to the engine? I only ask since the catalog lists those original wires. I get the fact that the path would be more direct, and less connections, but don't you have to ground the frame at some point? I know the newer vehicles use those little copper ground straps all over the place... Again, thanks for the help. This is going to make life so much easier when I go to try and start this thing...Really appreciate it! Andy
The throttle knob is the greatest invention in the world! if your engine is cold natured, it's just like having an accelerator pedal that's hand operated. just pull it out a little and it increases the rpm of the motor. Great for cold morning start ups. it comes in handy too if you haven't mastered the "same foot on the starter and accelerator pedal at the same time" technique of starting your engine.
Just a little added information on the throttle knob...It is not cruise control. Another common use for it is when you are running accessories off the PTO, you can keep the R's up. Dave
DANGER DANGER Will Robinson ! ....What Dave said ! the hand throttle is a warmup & PTO device , never , EVER use it for cruising The correct battery cables should connect the ground to the side of the tranny , a 3/8" bolt IIRC . the ground path is very important as the 6 volt system uses far more _amperes_ than a 12 volt system does and each connection makes resistance . the primary current consumer is always the starter motor so proper grounding is critical . you can find webbed ground straps in any battery cable catalog , I'd avoid buying cables from a old truck parts vendor unless they tell you " yes , it is # 1 gauge and made in America " without any BS or hedging . You can use 0 gauge or even 00 gauge but no thinner than # 1 gauge ! .
Funny, only folks that have done any electrical work would know what 00 or 0 mean for a wire size. Good thing I tend to do that stuff at work. I'll be looking into the battery cables...may forgo them for a little while, but they are certainly a piece of the truck that will need some attention (just like darn near everything else!) Can't wait to get 'er started! Andy
battery cables Just a note from a Brit, I have used very successfully on many vehicles, industrial welding cables, for arc welders. Slightly larger diameter, but only slightly! flexible and can handle as many amps as you thow at them. just my 2 cents. ________ Launch box vaporizer
Long Awaited Update Well, finally got home to see the truck. Found out a few bits of info... First, the engine is a 55-57 235 out of a truck. Upon removing the valve cover to pour some oil on the valves a large chunk of rust fell off into the head. I'm thinking it may be best to forget about getting the engine started. It's either going to need a rebuild or at the very least the head pulled and...judging by the amount of sludge it hasn't been that well taken care of. I figure the rust particles would probably finish it off. No reason to start it just for no reason... The truck also has a 54 bed on it. The bed is in really good shape. Tho I can't say that about the rest of the pickup. Rust has taken it's toll in some hidden areas. There isn't a part on the pickup that won't need attention... So, with that said I may part this truck out. I managed to find another 52 3100 locally that has far lest rust. It appears to be more complete and apparently runs and drives. The engine is not one I've seen before. It was a straight six, tho it had a one piece head/intake. I think it's out of a late 70s early 80s chevy. Any ideas out there? I'll snap some pics tomorrow. Thanks for your help! Andy
Andy ; Chunk of rust ? from where ? it couldn't have gone far into the engine so I'd scrape it out and do a ' make run ' to see what's up with this 235 , they're good engines and hard to kill , it might well turn out to be perfectly good and good for horse trading or selling outright... A shame to just give up and toss it because it's full of old parrafin... Anyway , 1st. post said good body , what happened ? . The 6 banger with integral intake manifold is (If it's a GM engine) a good engine , displaces 4 liters 300 C.I. IIRC , these were the very last inline Chevy truck engines and we had a whole fleet of them . most cracked the cylinder head by 40,000 miles and were replaced , so many cracked that GM ran out of spares and decided to re-design it before selling any more , the replacements are very good indeed , it's a peppy fuel thrifty engine although I personally don't like integral manifolds , it stopped once and for all , the pesky intake leaks that have plauged inline engines since they went to overhead valve construction . Coupled to any modern tranny it'll make a great crusier or work truck , able to zip down the open road @ 75 MPH all day long . Good luck keep us posted and pix ! we need pix ! .
Late Chevy 4.0 Liter Inline 6 Banger Uh , you know this is a very modern rig for me so no guarantee of exactitude in this 'K ? . lessee , late 1970's , like 1979 IIRC then the last year they offered U.S. citizens the inline 6 was the 1981 model year . Please to note : third world countries could still get up to C-60 series conventional trucks (they're BIG !) with this engine far later and the Domestic Mexican Chevy trucks had it untill very recently , dammit . I looked hard at Mexican 1/2 ton pickup trucks in the late 1980's to about 1996 but they're really on the lookout for these grey market rigs being snuck into America (who , ME Officer ?! ) so I dropped the idea after getting caught with a 1986 Mexican VW Beetle...
Looking good there ! . I hope that shed doesn't leak , as we're forecasted a very wet winter this year..
