Rebuilding a 235.....could it really be that hard?

So I have got the front end of my '54 pretty torn apart (see pics). Air tools are a beautiful thing and I have now become pretty dangerous with one in hand. I figured now that I am this far into it maybe I should just pull the engine and rebuild it. Since I have never done anything like this before, how hard would it be to do such a thing? Everything that I have had to do up to this point has seemed really easy and obvious so I think I could go for the engine. What are everyone's thoughts and are there any good resource books or websites preferably with pictures that give you a step by step instructions on how to do it all?

 

Maybe new gaskets, but if it ain't broke...
As Nate says, these engines will run forever if you keep up with it. Even that Chevy engine. ;^)

 

235 Service

I see you have power brakes, nice .

Anyways , before dipping into it , since you have an air compressor and a fondness for tools , why not buy a " Cylinder Leakdown Tester " and use it on this engine ~ it's a good tool to show you just how good or worn out , your old engine is .

of course , you'd adjust the valves before using this simple tool and make sure to position each cylinder @ TDC as you're testing it .

If , you find it has lots of leakdown and decide to open it up , consider a proper in frame overhaul as GM intended , you can do it very easily and you'll be well pleased with the results , I guarantee it .

FWIW , any Chevy Inline engine can easily be made to run well with only 40 % cylinder health ~ they're that well designed . basic compression down to 65 # ? no problem ! . just tune it sharply and you'll never know that old 'Banger is worn out .

Expect to spend a goodly bit on the cylinder head (I can easily drop $2,500) , the rest is all very straight forward nuts & bolts , replace all the welch plugs with brass ones of course .

It is a rare thing to need boring or crank turning in these sturdy , well designed 1940's tech engines . (my personal favorite)

If you look in my older posts , I have written detailed overhaul notes , feel free to bump them up and point out my glaring errors .

Lastly , I have in the last few years , become enamored of " Gapless " piston rings ~ they're a wonderful thing , increasing power and fuel economy at the same time the increase engine life beyond your wildest dreams .

Pretty much I scrap all the pistons in any engine I open up anymore , they're not cheap but the benefits are lifelong .

I'd not be so much in a hurry to use air tools on engine work .

I hope this was helpful .

 

Nate - half of what you wrote seemed like Chinese to me.....is that a problem?

Nate,

I followed you some of the way through what you wrote but as I have said I have never torn apart an engine nor am I in any way a mechanic. I think I am mechanically inclined and can figure things out but that is about it. I actually want to pull the engine out completely so I can paint it up to look really nice. At the same time since I have the whole truck this broken down I was thinking I may as well get the engine, transmission, etc. 100%. I thought I would just fix the '54 up and get it running but by the looks of it, it is going to be close to if not a complete frame off restoration. I just have this problem with not being able to put something back together knowing it needs to be fixed or brought back to new condition, and since it is this far apart anyways..... So I did so looking around quickly and found this Cylinder Leakdown Tester at Harbor Freight:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cylinder-leak-down-tester-94190.html?utm_medium=cse&utm_source=googlebase&mr:trackingCode=1F750F9E-782A-E011-B31E-001B2163195C&mr:referralID=NA

What do you think of this one. It doesn't seem to get really good reviews but it appears that some of that might be user error. Is there one you would recommend that would be user friendly if directions were followed? Also do you know of any books or internet sites which give in depth explanations on how to do the complete rebuilding? For as old and as common as these engines are, it would seem there would be some info available out there.

 

Rebuilt my first 235 when i was 17 with my Dad. Was a great learning process and was a lot easier than rebuilding a briggs&stratten.Follow Nates advice on the leak down test it'll give you some good info.A compression test wouldn't be a bad idea either.
Good luck
Bobby

 

Pre - Overhaul Inspection

Yep ;

That one looks O.K. ~ If this engine isn't running now , I'd make it run to fully & properly evaluate what it needs .

As mentioned , you need both a Leak Down and Compression Tests , the Compression Test is best done on a warm engine with the throttle propped wide open .

As I said before , I've posted much on internal engine service as have several others , take lotsa pictures as this will be a long job for a newbie , not to worry though .

Get a large , sturdy workbench and make it *Hospital* clean , it'll get nasty as you go along , no worries keep cleaning as you go and have a tablet & pencil handy at all times so you can jot down notes and add parts & things as they crop up and trust me , they WILL .

BEWARE of newbs & boobs who know nothing and will tell you to rebuild , regrind & remachine everything , that's not the way to a long lasting , smooth running engine .

Expect to invest the trucks value into a proper engine rebuild .

Chinese eh ? multi - cultural you are I guess .

 

Different tune

Singing a different song now Nate! Last guy who asked this you lectured him on how these were farm trucks and told him to get a sand pit, throw some 30 weight into it and dump his engine onto the mix and then rebuild it!! Now your going all namby pamby Indy car on us and telling us to clean everything?

I'm lost, does this all the smoking and grinding from my newbie rebuilt motor ain't right???

 

All the smoking means you will have to add oil every few days. Therefore you always have fresh oil and will never have to do an oil change !

 

Ah ha

Drip feed

 

having worked on racecars for 30 years, a clean assembly area is best.from 4cyl. to 8 cyl. the cleaner the assembly area the better. the little details go a long way.
Bobby

 

Oil Use

A little topic drift here but good info as you will see :

My recent 1976 GMC's 29 C.I. 6 Banger used quite a lot of oil , it runs well and no smoke so I just kept plugging away at it , cleaning , tuning , replacing gaskets here & there , adjusting & tweaking it and in due time , the oil use dropped way off , it's almost nil now ~ it runs out that a combination of poor tuning , rotten / wrong & missing hoses along with zero valve lash , incredibly sloppy ' repair ' work done South of The Border , and a buncha other details , all co joined to ensure this poor old work truck pi$$ed oil out as soon as it reached working RPM's ~ now , whenever I pop the hood , it's all clean and dry and doesn't need a quart of oil every couple hundred miles .

As I've not had the head off nor the pan loose , my point is : keep plugging away at the little things and usually you'll be well rewarded with a good running truck that's easy on your wallet.....

Don't be in a rush to rip it all apart .

 

Nate - I think I am past the point of no return now....

I have everything torn apart and the engine to the point where it could be picked. It seems to leak in just about every location so I think the best thing to do is have it rebuilt. Although it did seem to run fine and was compression tested and was acceptable so is it necessary? Is it possible that I could pick it and just re-do all of the gaskets to keep it from leaking and paint it all up nice and pretty? I just think that since I have it this far anyways that I would want to re-do it. The cab, bed, fenders, hood, etc are so far tore apart that it looks like this is going to be a frame up anyways so I just think that I may as well make sure the engine is 100% if I am going to go to all that trouble. I would hate to get everything perfect just to find out 10,000 miles from now that the engine needs to be pulled and re-built. What are your thoughts?

 

Tough Call

As I'm not there to see it in person .

Measure the bore for taper and , if it had decent oil pressure before , don't let anyone talk you into turning the crankshaft nor replacing the oil pump .

New bearings throughout , welch plugs all replaced with brass ones , a new 261 cam & lifters if you can afford it and it'll prolly run as new for longer than you'll be alive .

These were designed for periodic overhaul rather than complete rebuilding .

Follow your heart , if you want to rebuild it , do so , it's all apart now anyways .

 

More questions for you Nate......

So can I just put in a 261 camshaft and lifters and that is the end of it, or will machining need to take place to accommodate the new lifters? Does anything need to be done to put in the 261 camshaft?

Also I was thinking about just putting in new rods since I am putting in new lifters. What are your thoughts?

Should I just have the machine shop boil out the engine (hot tanking)? I have see some videos about setting up your own contraption but being as I would have to go buy everything to make it happen it doesn't seem worth it.

Lastly, do you know of any books that give step by step instructions on tearing one of these down and then putting it back together plus photos to show everything. As you can tell I am no mechanic, I am just a guy with an air ratchet who is dangerous.

 

Periodic Overhaul

Remember that old 292 I mentioned before ? I just got back from driving it to Beatty , Nevada , only used one quart of oil and didn't drip a drop....

Yes , the 261 cam is a slip in *but* , you'll need to have a Machins shop heat the new cam gear to install it , it's very easy to snap off the end of the cam whilst doing it .

You'll also need to replace the crank gear with one made by the SAME BRAND AS THE CAM GEAR or it'll howl & whine & drive you crazy .

NO HYDRAULIC LIFTERS ! solids , new ONLY not ' rebuilt ' .

If you have the block hot tanked , you'll also have to replace the cam bearings , another tricky job that requires a special tool and patience .

Replace all the freeze plugs now whilst you can rwach 'em , use only brass ones , take the old mangled rusty steel ones to the parts store & match them up .

Since you've not paid any attantion to anything I said before , just go on ahead & have at it , it'll be fine as these really are dead simple engines , easy to fix .

 

Nate - I have paid attention but.....

Every machine shop I have talked to (3 of which have been recommended to me by one source or another) say they are only willing to do a complete re-build. I have discussed the in frame over haul with them and none are willing to do it.

Perhaps you have a good machine shop that you could recommend to do the overhaul. I live in Santa Clarita but go down to West LA every day for work so I could go to a shop in the San Fernando valley, Simi Valley, Santa Clarita Valley, LA area, etc. I could bring the engine and head down to them.

The only tearing apart I have done is removed the head. I took out the rods to do that. I have removed the bell housing but that is about it (off course I have the engine out of the truck to do that). I don't think I have gone too far yet. But when you talk about measuring bore/taper, going to gapless piston rings I do think it starts to go over my head and since it seems every shop wants to tear the whole thing down anyway I know I can do a tear down and save some $. On the other hand if there was a shop I could trust (and my engine won't be the first 235 they have worked on) I could just have them do the overhaul you mention instead of the complete re-build

On a side note the freeze plug behind the bell housing was rusted out and the other issue I have is when I pulled out the drain cock on the block, nothing came out. In fact I stuck my pick all of the way in and it was just solid particles. Now that the front freeze plug just popped off I can see that there is a lot of sediment in there and I am not sure how to get all of that out. I have read the posts about citrus acid (I think that is what it was) but I just don't see how I would be able to do this without creating a huge mess. I live in a small house community in Santa Clarita with the houses all bunched together so I don't have a bunch of land where I could take the engine out to the backyard and create a mess everywhere. If I run water through the engine and a bunch of sediment comes out the only place I could do it would be in the street and I am sure the neighbors would not go for that.

 

off topic

Steve,

off topic.

i see your boot on the rear. Is it an soft or an hard boot?
I'm looking for a good idea to use a hard boot because my soft boot is too soft if it's warm outside.

Volker

 

Engine Rebuild

Well ;

I wish I could tell you where to go......

I trust NO ONE anymore , too many disappointments over the years .

Maybe Malcom in Temple City , if you have capacity to bring it to him ? . he used to own a light blue '53 Chevy 3100 and still moons over it but he sold it because it was just a cheap truck back then .

I left him a message asking if he'd do it , he has a good machine shop he works with .

 

Rear Boot = rear bed cover?

Volker,

I think you are talking about the rear bed cover on the truck? That is actually a soft cover which I have since removed. I want to put the truck back looking original as possible so the cover had to go.

Steve

 

Nate - I am with you and I trust no one

Nate,

It seems everyone I talk to has no interest in actually helping me restore the truck, they just want to perform a job and it seems most jobs I have paid for have done have been wrong. Just about everything I paid to have someone do at some point I have since taken apart to restore and have found that it was not done right. That is why I have started into the engine because I was afraid of the same thing.

Let me know what Malcom says. Temple City is pretty far but I could load the engine in the back of my other car and take it to him.

Steve