What is it, and what does it come out of? Would one bolt up to a 228? Apparently they bolt up to 235's alright, or am I missing something? (I can't believe I just asked that...) This in no-way, shape or form means that I'm waffling on my direction. Also- I assUme that these don't bolt up to the stock trans member. (Since I already pitched my old one...) Just thinking outloud- thanks for your input!
Zig, Even better, go to http://www.inliners.org/, click on Tech Tips, and then their T-5 transmission page. Great article on "hybridizing" a Camaro and an S-10 T-5 transmission to get the shifter in the right place in your truck if you keep the bench seat, and addresses the speedometer problem. It should bolt up to your bellhousing, though you may have to drill the mounting holes to 1/2". I used this article to put one together and it's on the bench waiting to bolt up to a 235. You can use the T-5 from an S-10 as it is. The gear ratios are different from the Camaro, I think. This transmission was used in a lot of vehicles, Chevy, Ford, Jeep, Izusu, but I think only the GM versions have the same bolt pattern as your truck.
Thanks Bob! Great info!!! What rear are you going with? As you can tell, I'm leaning back towards using my 228... Sorry Nate- I know I promised... Going this way, I could yank the engine, take it to my dad's garage. Work it over, get a T5 hook it up and I'll be going so fast I won't know how to act! What about the trans mount? You would use one of those from CP, right? I'm sure the original mount won't work, right? Many-many thanks!
Zig, I'm using a rear axle from a V-8 '70 Chevelle. It has a gear ratio of 3:08, which may be a little tall for when it all goes together. I've got $15 in the rear axle, so if there's a problem, I'm not out that much. As for the transmission mount, I'm not sure about that yet. I have the mount that was on the Camaro T-5, and may be able to rework it to use it. I haven't looked at the CP mounts yet, and if all else fails, I can fabricate one in my shop. I'm better at mechanical stuff than bodywork, so I'm much further ahead on my drive train than on the bodywork for my truck. So with the exception of the drive shaft, my drive train is ready to go (at least the original version) If you decide to go the T-5 route, let me know how it goes. Hope this helps, good luck!
Zig, If you decide to go with a T-5 in your truck, try to get the clutch disc that was used with it if possible. I don't know what year your truck is or what kind of transmission is in it now, but odds are the T-5 input spline and your original transmission spline are going to be different. My original '50 3-speed has a 10 spline shaft, and the T-5 will have either a 14 spline (if from a 4 cyl or V-6) or 26 spline if it comes out of a V-8 vehicle. The next issue is the size of the clutch itself. Earlier Chevy pickups had a 9" clutch but they went to a 10 3/4" clutch in the '53-'55 timeframe, I think. My '50 model was a 10 3/4", which tells me it's not the original clutch. I found an article online where the guy had a clutch disc custom made from the center hub of the T-5 clutch with a bigger lining riveted on to it. I went to a local clutch shop to see about getting one built and the guy goes in the back of his shop and brings out one he had in stock. He says its a common request from street rod guys with T-5 transmissions. The only difference is that the disc is 10 1/2", but that's not a big deal. Well worth the $35 he charged me for it. I may be giving you more info than you need/want, but it might save you some time down the road. Have a great day!
No No No! I don't think there is ever enough info! That allows the reader to go until they get enough. This all sounds like things I'd have questions about anyway- The only thing you didn't tell me is the name of the shop you got it from. That's an awesome deal to walk in thinking, "This will probably take a while to get, or be to pricey," and then have him hand you one for under 40 bucks!? To cool! My truck is a 3/4 ton GMC- 1952, with a 4 onda floor. One question though. What do you mean when you say the rear end you got "may be to tall"? Thanks a Brazillion for the info Bob!
My rear axle ratio is 3.08:1. It was originally in a Chevelle with a V-8, with more torque and power overall than my 235, which is usually used in these old trucks with a 4.11:1 ratio. However, I think the lower 1st gear ratio in the T-5 may make up for some of the difference. I'm sure some expert could figure all that out on paper, but I'm thinking I'll try it and see what happens. As I said, I don't have much invested in this axle, so if it works-great!, and if not I'll go get one from a V-6 powered vehicle. The reason I want to try this one is because it's almost exactly the same width as the original axle. The name of that clutch shop is A-1 Clutch Service. I don't have an address, just that it's off exit 121 of I-65 south of Louisville. I'll try and get you a phone number and address, or if you want I'll go pick one up and send it to you if you'd rather do that. If your truck's pressure plate is the same size as the clutch that the T-5 used, you should be able to get one from most any auto parts store. You would just need to know what type of vehicle the transmission came from. You can get the numbers off the metal tag attached to the transmission and go online to find out what it was used on.
Thanks Bob! I'm going to print all this stuff of so I'll have it for later. It prolly won't be 'till next summer before I get into it, but having my ducks lined up before hand will help! Great info on this!
Good Info ! Bob ; This is all most excellent info ! . I bet that 3.08 final drive will work out fine with the 5 speed tranny , will prolly need to down shift to 4th. for steeper hills but that's the way of OverDrive , long forgotten by most . Keep up the great work ! .
Yeah, that's my thinking, too. But I'd much rather downshift to 4th going up the hill at 60 than listen to 'er wind up going down the other side at 50 with the original 3-speed and that 4.ll back there.
I ain't no expert but if you had gone from a 4.11 to a 3.08 with the original tranny you would have reduced your engine rpms by 25% at a given gear and speed. I would have to know the ratio of each gear in the five speed to be able to figure rpms. I am sure you could come up with a fancy graph to show rpms versus speed improvements by making the upgrades that you are making but the bottom line is that you are making a road trip truck. You won't be overworking your engine unless you decide to downshift and do it on purpose. Sounds good to me. TG
Selecting the right clutch seemed to be one of the most confusing parts of the t-5 swap. The issue is that the size (diameter) of your stock flywheel determines the size of your clutch and if memory serves me right, there are three different sizes (9 1/8", 10.. and 11...) that people are finding in their trucks. I presume these differences in sizes are dependent on the size of the truck (my 1/2 ton has the 9 1/8" diameter clutch for example). So, you need a new clutch that is the same diameter as your existing stock clutch, or else it won't match up with your existing flywheel (goes without saying that your pressure plate also has to be the correct size). Once you pull your stock clutch you simply measure the diameter to determine the diameter of your replacement clutch. Why replacement clutch instead of simply reusing the stock clutch? The other variable is the number of "splines" on the end of your input shaft on your transmission. The three speed on my stock tranny has 10 splines (one inch diameter shaft). The t-5 tranny comes in many "flavors" and your t-5 will probably have 14 splines if it comes off a s-10, but some earlier models have 10 splines and t-5's out of camaro/firebirds have something like 26 splines (for example). Clutches also come in 10, 14, 26 spline configurations, and you have to get the clutch spline configuration that matches the number of splines on your input shaft, as well as matching the diameter of your flywheel. So, unless you have one of the relatively few t-5's from an older s-10 with a 10 spline input shaft, you cannot use your stock clutch, you must buy a clutch that is the same diameter as your stock clutch, but the number of splines of your new t-5 input shaft (as far as I know they all have 1" diameter input shafts). The main problem is that a lot of FLOP's only know how to look up clutches by the car model/year, and have trouble knowing how to find one based on the diameter and spline count. A good one will use a little common sense, all these clutches are cheap and readily available through NAPA, etc. I bought the entire "clutch kit", including clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing, clutch or pilot bearing, and alignment tool, so everthing is matched (there apparently are two different lengths of throwout bearings available, and must match the appropriate pressure plate, I avoided this potential mismatch by buying the entire kit). Finally, people are reporting some difficulty with the new clutches not disengaging entirely, and a few are addressing this by grinding down a small amount off off the springs on the front of the clutch assembly. From what I've read and my own experience, this isn't needed as there are better/simpler solutions. Problem number one is, no matter what the parts guy tells you, there is definitely a front and back side to the clutch (back sticks out further) and if you install it backwards it will not disengage from the flywheel properly. Some clutches you can simply look at and its marked front or back, and some the back obviously sticks out way more, but make sure you can tell before you take it home (when I asked the NAPA guy he told me "it doesn't matter", when we took the clutch out of the box and looked at it, "well I'll be, I quess it does"). The second solution is to take a cut off wheel, dremel tool, etc, and extend the spine grooves slightly (like 3/8") on the back end of the input shaft. This allows the clutch to slip back a little further from the flywheel to guaruntee complete disengagement. It's very easy to make this modification, just be sure to keep the metal chips from getting into your t-5 tranny. An archive search on stovebolt.com forum reveals feedback and pictures from a ton of people who've done this swap, and well as tranny seriel numbers so you can identify exactly what t-5 you have, exactly what all the gear ratios are, what model/year car it fit (pretty handy when you're trying to find the part number for the new clutch), etc. Hope helpful Dave P.S., Nate, when I was young I never gave any thought to having the flywheel/pressure plate balanced as I was just too poor. Is it worth it for these stock 235 engines? F4fntm2, my father flew F4's in Vietnam. You?
A simple "thanks!" Wow dave, you don't post much on here, but when you do... That was a ton of GREAT info! (well written- I like the converstation with the parts guy the best! LOL) I'm sure there's a bunch of posts on other sites, but I seldom get to those. This is my home, so I appreciate you bringing the paper! Time to get this copier going so I can add this to my 3 ring binder of info from you guys! Thanks for the time you spent to post that.
You're right, Zig, that is a lot of good info, especially the workarounds for some of the problems that may come up anytime you start putting things together that were made for different applications. No, Dave, I was a B-52 mechanic during the Vietnam timeframe, but was commissioned in '75, and flew as a backseater in F-4s for the next 12 years.
Balancing Yes , I think so~ the machine shop will want to balance the pressure plate and flywheel as a unit , make sure you see either a paint spot for alignment or have the guy show you the mark . Balancing the heavy flywheel makes the engine easier to turn so less power is wasted both spooling it up -and- when you let up off the throttle , it slows down faster too making better engine braking as well as faster shifts... ASK first , if they're going to balance it to zero or how many grams ~ if not to _zero_ take the job elsewhere , this is a time consuming job so expect to pay a bit for it but it also reduces harmonic vibrations , leading directly to longer bearing life... -Nate Dave Wrote : P.S., Nate, when I was young I never gave any thought to having the flywheel/pressure plate balanced as I was just too poor. Is it worth it for these stock 235 engines? F4fntm2, my father flew F4's in Vietnam. You?[/QUOTE]
