Building a clone of grandpa's service truck

Lakeroadster's cool house, I mean shop.

Man, that is one good-lookin' shop. I like the setting of the first one though, Too many neighbors. They would not like my 3am Kenworth start ups, probably call the cops.
Steve.

 

Ok, I have another rookie question here:

When installing the sump pick-up to the oil pump, should I rely on the tapered pipe threads to keep things tight, or should I put a little pipe dope on the male threads?

I tested the new oil pump today and was very happy with the results. That thing was flowing lots of oil at low RPMs. I remember Nate mentioning it's important to keep the RPMs low during the test.

I uploaded a poor quality cell phone video of the oil pump test to YouTube, check if out if you like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjCgQdkco0s&feature=youtu.be

Any thoughts about the functionality of the pump and/or the sealing of the sump pick-up to the pump are most welcome. I don't think I can just tighten the sump around to the next revolution, that's why I was wondering about the pipe dope.

Stay tuned for photos. I'm going to head back out to the garage to clean up the push rod cover in the blast cabinet, then I'll probably be done for the night.

Damon

 

As promised, some pictures...

I didn't get quite as much done in the garage today as I'd hoped. A buddy brought by a couple of vehicles that needed some work, so I helped him out with that. However, I did accomplish several things.

I was able to clean up the oil pan and the push rod cover in the blast cabinet. There are a few dings and bent edges to work out, but over all, the parts are in pretty good shape.



Next is a still photo I took while running the oil pump test. I took this picture since the video looked awful. As you can see, the pump passed the mustard. This was a very low RPM run, and the flow is very good.



I'm still seeking input on the sump pick-up to oil pump connection, regarding whether or not I should use pipe dope on the threads. My concern is: if I leave it as is, will it work loose over time and cause leaks? And, if I try to tighten it to the next revolution, will I bend the hell out of it and ruin the pick-up?

Up next, a little tour of the new shop.

Damon

 

The new shop...

Here's a small series of photos I took today showing the new shop. Please pardon the mess in both the shop and old garage. I'll have things more organized after I get to pour concrete in the shop and can move stuff around to more permanent places.

Here's a shot from the outside. I'm really tired of the snow, by the way. I'm ready to be able to work out in the garage/shop with the doors wide open. The only reason the big bay door is open in these photos is that, as of now, there is no lighting up in the shop. That's on the list of things to do after the concrete is done.



Moving inside... here's a shot of the fire engine's home. There's oodles of side wall left in the shop, so I'm planning on taking Lakeroadster's advice and put up some sort of loft. I have no idea what it will look like yet, as that is a long ways off.



Turning towards the old garage, you can see the 12' wide hole that was opened up in the wall so I can go back and forth between the two buildings. You'll also notice that the posts for the new shop sit away from the walls of the old garage. I plan on using this sort of void space for storage. I will probably leave the blast cabinet where it is (in the front void space), and I'm thinking I'll install a furnace in the one to the right (rear). The air compressor you see will be moved. More on that later.



This is looking into the old garage, standing up against the fire engine behind me. After the concrete is poured in the shop, the parts shelves you see on the farthest wall of the old garage will move to the rear wall of the new shop, behind the fire engine. Then I'll take the air compressor seen in the previous photo and move it to the well room. The door way of the well room is barely visible on the wall to the right of the parts shelves in the very corner of the old garage. I will pipe air out of it from there to the garage and shop. What I have set up now is just temporary so I can use both the compressor and blast cabinet.



The last shot is standing next to the '50 Chevy frame looking into the new shop. You can kinda see the frame of the truck in the previous photo. It's covered with plywood, so it's basically serving as a big table and staging area for a bunch of "stuff" right now. The radiator at the rear of the truck frame (to the left) is out of one of the fire trucks. I'm trying to help a volunteer fire company in getting their old American LaFrance back on the road. Anyway, here's looking into the new shop from the old garage. Not much to see.



Well, there ya have it. Welcome to the new shop. It feels good to post another update. Hopefully I'll have the 235 completely assembled, painted, and installed soon. Speaking of which: is there a preference of brand of engine paint out there? I've decided on Chevrolet gray for the color, I just didn't know if any one brand of paint was better than another. I see our host carries Nason. Thoughts?

Thanks again everyone, I truly appreciate your thoughts and input... can't thank you enough.

Damon

 

Pipe dope ?

You can easely put some on the thread Damon , but use some that is oil and accid resistant . Nice expended workshop you have got your self there. The old red is greatfull fore that The only thing i would suggest is to get both floors in the same level , but you probebly have thought of that ? If your going to have some boards or panel on the walls a good quality material is recommandeble. The panels they have inside diary farm houses are mostly water resistant aswell.

Nice job Martinius.

 

That looks GREAT!!!

Looking into the old garage, you can see the need for "more space"!

So are you surface mounting the electrical in your new area? Are you planning some kind of door setup to separate the two sections?
Good luck with getting your engine finished! You made me tired just reading about everything you have going on! Thanks for the photo update, Damon.

 

Zig,

Yes, the plan is to surface-mount all of the electrical runs in the new shop. I figure it's better to go that way at this point, as I don't yet know for sure how I will set up the loft space in the future. For now, there are no plans to install doors to separate the two work areas. The opening between the two is 12 feet wide, with six feet of wall at the front of the garage, and at the rear. I suppose pocket doors might be a good idea, but then I would lose the void space between the buildings as a storage area. Certainly food for thought. I already move between the two spaces quite often, so I don't know if I would even want to mess with doors in the future. Who knows? Maybe one space could become a paint/finishing area eventually... then doors would certainly be a great idea.

Martinius,

Yes, both floors will be at the same level. I had to bring in four tandem axle loads of fill rock just to build up the area next to the old garage to put the shop there. Right now, there's a "rock ramp" in place to get the fire engine (and whatever else) in and out of the shop. That will be dug out and leveled on the shop floor, as there are still a couple of low areas around the perimeter. I plan on renting a plate compactor at least once or twice to compact the fill rock down before the concrete is poured. Like Nate says with the truck project, the new shop is being completed in "baby steps."

Damon

 

Damon, that's exactly what I was thinking. Paint/finish area. Hmmmmm......

 

Looking Good !

Wow ;

I'm envious .

Some pipe dope is O.K. , DO NOT stress that 50 year old tin tube ! .

Once you have the head on the engine , install the oil pump and fill the sump with super thin Dino - based oil and run the pump again until you see oil dribbling out of the rocker's weep holes . now it's truly & properly pre - lubed so you can fire it off and run it to 3,000 RPM's & HOLD it there for 60 full seconds while your heart palpatates and time appears to slow down......

I found every one of those pix full of things to observe & look at .

It's a bit late now but I never , EVER bead / sand blast oil pans or other internal parts .

 

Thanks for the comments, Nate. I wasn't going to bead blast the oil pan, but I talked myself into it. I will take extensive measures to thoroughly and completely clean it out before it's assembled to the engine.

I believe the machinist who worked on my 235 recommended 1,200 PPMs for the break-in period. May I ask why you recommend 3,000? It's not that I don't trust your advice, but the way my brain is wired... I like to know the "why's" when I'm taught new things... it helps the lessons stick much better.

Thanks again.

Damon

 

Initial Engine Breakin

Good question ! .

If there's a new / reground cam and lifters , use the 1,200 RPM's method because the cam lobes need to " Work Harden " . always follow the instruction card that comes with anew or re ground cam ! .

The 3,000 RPM's is because the piston rings don't really bed in well unless they're working hard and the higher RPM's force them hard against the cylinder walls ~ if you're using the old cam & lifters , I highly suggest my method ~ yes , it takes a real leap of faith , I'll never forget the very first time I tried it but , the increased compression ratio , reduced blowby and oil consumption plus more power and far longer engine life , will cause you to be a believer once you try it .

Lycoming and Bell Textron , BMW , Mercedes , Honda C.A.R.T. Racing and plenty more , all do this .

It requires fortitude , a watch with a sweep second hand , a tachometer and the ability to follow directions to the letter , no variances .

In 60 short seconds it'll bed in and get plenty hot ,. may well billow out HUGE clouds of choking blue smoke but , once it's run 60 seconds , shut it down and walk away ~ I leave 'em overnight and in the AM I re check & adjust the valves , points (if equipped) and ignition timing before re starting it and doing the final carby idle adjustments .

BTW : before I assemble the pistons to the cylinders , I completely clean and dry them ~ I wash each cylinder by hand using white paper towels and Windex until the paper comes out Hospital Clean ~ that minute grey stuff you see on the white paper towel ? it's SWARF ~ microscopic metal particles left over from the Machine Works or Honing you did and it'll wear the new pistons & cylinders rapidly .

To re cap : DRY PISTONS & CYLINDERS .

 

Thanks for the in-depth explanation!!!!!!

I'm actually using a new cam and new lifters, so maybe that's why the machinist made his recommendation. However, he hadn't told me about the dry cylinder deal. Unfortunately, I've already installed the head. Are dry cylinders critical? If so, I can always buy another head gasket and remove the head.

Thanks so much for your help.

Damon

 

Engine issues!

The 1955 235 car engine i have whas overhauled at a racing car machinery comp that remanufactures all kinda engines. I whas told to clean the engine as Nate recommends. All internal parts where overhauled or came in new. I bought new oversized pistons and a new cam , and lifters and whas told to have them oiled when installing them back in place.The cylinder walls where inserted with fresh good quality oil and engine reasambled the same day. Next day i installed the engine in the truck and turned the pistons very gently by hand many times, also to feel how the pistons turned around and if there whas anough resistance by listening to its sound.
I whas told to run the engine on ease the first 50 miles even if it has long piston rods and 6 cylinders at aprox . 75 % of maximum power range . Then to measure the compression after 50 miles and re adjust everything and tighten cyl. top bolts. Engine runs like a silent sewing machine , the way an old 6 cylinder does after many miles. At this point i changed the first oil an washed the oil pan and installed a new oil filter. The old oil whas looking good as i checked if any microscopic metal parts where there and found a litle attached to the drain plug magnet but not significant.

Now when it comes to cabinet beat blasting there is no danger streching any steel material if the pistol pressure is right!
Beat blasting with plastic or glass cubicles works good. Using sand or carbon gritt is another issue and gives the rough surface . I am moore carefull using these components . Blasting internal parts is not recommendable but the side cover or your oil pan would not give any problems. It might even helps you to discover minor rust holes that would need some copper welding! A thourough hot water cleaning and air stream drying makes it nice. Remember to have it surface painted immidiately as rust occures momently.

I am looking forward to see moore of your work , thank you for sharing Martinius.

 

Martinius,

Thank you for sharing your experience.

I've gained quite a bit of experience with using the blasting cabinet... what a cool tool to have at your disposal! I wouldn't ever clean any internal engine parts with glass beads, sand, or silicon carbide. However, sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) can be used to clean such parts without fear of etching the components. The baking soda is pulverized to dust upon impact, simply cleaning the surface of carbon and gunk. I've yet to use my blast cabinet for such a purpose, but with spare heads, manifolds, etc. laying around my garage, I may clean them up to sell them someday.

Damon

 

Baking soda

Thanks fore sharing your experiences aswell. The baking soda part i whas aware of in that matter but had forgotten about it. It refreshed my information. Alzheimer light Did you found the right greyish paint color for your engine paint ? How about the cam and lifters that you have bought are they hydraulic and is the cam stock ? Where did you bought them ?

Have a nice day Damon.

 

I bought the engine master rebuild kit through the shop that I had do the machine work to the block and the head. I will look on the box when I get home and see if I can find the manufacturer's name. I know the components are not all the same name brand though. I decided to replace the camshaft and lifters with what was in it... hydraulic lifters. I haven't bought paint for the engine yet. I'm still working on finishing up modifications to the timing plate, so I can finally get this thing assembled. I'm getting very close to that point, so I suppose I should get some paint coming my way.

Damon

 

Engine Fun

O.K. ;

I bet you have thou$and$ of $ into this engine so do whatever makes your mind comfortable .

Me , I'd soak the new juice lifters in a bucket of 5W- whatever oil for a week to 100 % bleed them out , wipe clean and install on the new cam with proper camshaft lube slathered on the lifter feet & cam lobes too .

I'd then hand rotate the engine so each cylinder in turn gets to TDC and adjust each rocker to zero lash then 1/2 turn more to preload them , after it's broken in you can do the proper valve last adjustment @ idle , only enough preload to stop the click but NO MORE .

Yes , I personally would remove the pistons and wash them Hospital Clean along with the cylinders ~ I understand this is a scary thing to do , I had to be willing to ruin a new engine (!$!$) but I just had to try it because if million dollar engines do it , so should I non ? .

Either way it'll be fine I am sure .

I wish you could see the faces of the few guys I allow to come by every time I fire up a new or overhauled engine ~ eyes like saucers and worried sounds from them as the exhaust billows out blue smoke as the unladen engine roars along @ 3,000 RMPS and that damn sweep second hand s l o w s d o w n .....tick..................tick.................tick...............................tick


NATE ! f'chrissakes , that's GOTTA have been over 60 seconds !!! .

No Sir , it's only 37 seconds and counting , I cannot & will not stop the process once it's begun .

Tick..................tick..................tick..................tick

 

Getting back into the engine work, now that I have a little time off from work. I went to install the oil pump and sump today, and found that I've lost the fittings to reinstall the old pump-to-block line (which I cleaned inside and out). No biggie, I thought... I'll just go get new fittings and I'll be all set. No such luck. I found fittings that would install into the block and pump, but the line is 7/16" I.D. and I couldn't find fittings to match that. So... I'm planning on using 3/8" line to feed the block from the pump. I asked around at my FLAPS, and the experienced guys told me that would be fine, just not to go any smaller than that. Before I get started making the new line... does anyone have any thoughts on this? I realize flow is more important than pressure... I guess I just want your opinions on whether the 3/8" line will provide enough oil flow to the block.

Thanks!

Damon

 

Oil Flow

I'd NEVER use a smaller diameter pipe .

 

Nate,

The weird thing is... I found an oil pump-to-block tube and tried to clean it up and reinstall it... but the fittings were wrong. The compression fitting wouldn't go into neither the pump, nor the block. So... I went and bought new fittings. The thing is, the proper size pipe thread fittings for the pump and block won't allow the 7/16" tube to be used... a 3/8" tube must be used. So what I'm wondering is: why would the engine blocks (I had two previous engines before finding one viable for a rebuild) have different sized oil supply tubes?

I suppose I could root around on the internet and try to find a compression fitting that would allow the use of the 7/16" tube with the size of pipe threads required for the block and pump (they are the same), but with the oil passage (inside diameter) of the fittings being what it is, I don't really see the point of requiring the larger diameter tube. Kinda like when fighting a fire... water flow is largely determined by the size and number of restrictions in the plumbing... fire engine's piping, hose, couplings, adapters, nozzle, etc.

I'm also wondering if copper tube would be ok to use, as the steel tubing I bought (brake line) is only wanting to kink when I try to bend it.

Thanks again for your input.

Damon