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Diesel Swap?

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nsula_country

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Hello, first post on the board. I have a '79 C20 2WD Bonanza with the camper package. Some details are: 8 ft box, 3.73 gear set in a 14-bolt 10 1/2 ring gear corparate axle, stock 350 engine with Q-Jet 4bbl mated to a TH400 auto; heavy one-ton rear suspension and driveline, and finaly a Hickey Ent. winch mounted between the front frame rails. the only thing you see is the fairlead where the license plate goes and a skid plate.

My question is has anyone heard of or done a custom diesel engine swap with a John Deere turbo 6 cyl? I have seen this in some farm shop ideas in a book I used to have. If it is possible, what kind of transmission would it take to handle 150-250 hp and 600-1000 ft/lb of torque? And my ideal setup would include one of those overdrive/underdrive units to split the ratios so that freeway speeds and beyond (75+ mph) can be driven under 2100-2600 rpms, which is red-line for most of these engines. Idealy cruse speed (60-70 mph) should not exceed 1800 rpm.

This has been on my mind for a long time and I am willing to pioneer building a hybrid tractor engine/pickup combination. Front suspension will need to be beefed up some how to support the weight of a 8000 lb worm-drive winch and an extreamly engine. This is very far-fetched but it deserves thought.

NSULA_COUNTRY


79 C20 Bonanza
350/TH400 4bbl Q-Jet
3.73 14-Bolt Corp.
 
[updated:LAST EDITED ON Aug-19-04 AT 06:48 PM (CST)]Sounds like a work horse to me. This type of swap would require extensive fabrication to make everything fit, but hey, how many trucks are running around with a tractor engine? I've never heard of it. I don't know the diminsions of the John Deere engine, but I would start with a comparison between it and the 350 and look for length, width, height, and motor mount position, etc. It would definately require custom motor mount plates, and maybe a custom oil pan. Next would be the transmission and a custom bell housing. Your HP and tourqe levels are not unreasonable. But to keep your RPM levels down at high speeds, you would be better off using a beefed up 700R4 or a 4LE80, if you wanted to keep it automatic, rather than buying an over/underdrive unit. You may have to get a different rear end ratio to bring down the RPM's, but I would do that last if needed. It's easy enough to find wiring harness' to make the 700R4 or 4LE80 work in an older vehicle, but the bell housing adapter may be a problem. With the added length comes a new trans mounting point, longer fluid lines, and a shorter drive shaft. The suspension shouldn't be a problem to beef up, and there should be plenty room to mount the deisel accessories under the hood. Also the added heat from the turbo's and deisel engine may require a more adequate cooling system. If you've got the money, it can work. Good luck!
 
Thank you for the reply MarkyB. This is an "Experimental project". I have read about this and it has been done using tractor/industrial engines. I agree with you, the bellhousing and oil pan are just a few of the mods needed.

Length should not be a problem, but the depth of these engines are much greater than a "V" configuration, due to the diesels long stroke = torque. You seem to think that a 700R4 or a 4LE80 could handle a massive diesel? I was under the belief that a 700R4 is a relativly weak transmission.

My ultimate goal, in a chevrolet or other truck would be a 8+ liter diesel with an fully electronic industrial transmission. Most tractors these days are not of the clutch and shift style. They have a small joystick that you just move forward and backward to toggle 1-4 gears at a time up to 24 ratios.

This could be a bad-ass experimental vehicle if the funds were unlimited... While i am at it, why not install a belt driven 3-8kW generator to the mix. Anyone else want to add their two-cents?

79 C20 Bonanza
350/400 4bbl Q-Jet
3.73 14-Bolt Corp.
 
Anything can be accomplished if you put your mind to it! I have a relative that put a diesel from a semi in his full size four-wheel drive. It was not a chevy pick-up though, but it was still awesome to hear that thing run. He even used it to pull heavy equipment etc. He upgraded the suspension big time to pull these items. All I can say is don't give up on your idea!

Jeff
 
Well i have a 62 chevy you can put 4-6 cylinder John Deere turbo diesle in if ya want.
sounds like i might kinda be fun
Cowboy
 
The 700R4 is a weak transmission in a stock configuration, but if it's built corrrecly (with hardened shafts, hubs, and HD clutches, etc), it can be a very good tranny. The 4LE80 would be weak too, if you actually applied that much torque. Either one would be a good choice, but they will both have to be "beefed" up. After I replied the first time, I got to thinking about the shift points in these transmissions. I bet the engine would have to nearly redline, so as to build enough fluid pressure to reach the shift points. Just a thought. If you used a tractor tranny, you may be able to use a body lift kit in order to save part of your firewall and floor pan. It would be slick to have a joystick shift lever.
 
I am glad to see that I am not the only one that has a creative mind. I have a good deal of automotive experince, though limited on transmissions. I did not think about shift points. I know that with the 350 I have my modulator vaccuum set to shift at 4000 rpm. could a gasoline transmission be set to shift at 2300-2600 rpm? Diesel engines do not produce vaccuum, so a vaccuum pump would be needed unless it was a fully electronic transmission. Anyone have experience with those semi-automatics or automatics in heavy-duty trucks and tractor-trucks?

I do know that many production pick-ups have common trannys. Like my grandmothers 6.2L has a 700R4. It does have a vaccuum pump though to operate vaccuum accessories. The more I think of this makes me wish that I did this as a senior project in college. I can see it, "Northwestern Engineering Major Designs Frankenstine Diesel Truck, news at 10".

Keep up the ideas, and I will be looking into powerplants and drivetrains. The reason that i find this interesting is fuel milage and engine efficiency. Anyone can put a 600hp 540cid in a vehicle, but a 600hp, 1000ft/lb diesel that can pull a house and make fuel milage is insane. One day, just one day...

79 C20 Bonanza
350/400 4bbl Q-Jet
3.73 14-Bolt Corp.
 
Ha, I would have to watch that newscast.
With you having a 3.73 ratio, I'm pretty sure you would never be able to get within a shift point that low, and with your current differential, I don't think you can get a lower ratio installed. Although, the 14 bolt w/9.5" ring gear would allow you to go a step lower in ratio.
I have a TH350C in my truck, and it shifts between 1500-2000 with a 2.73 rear ratio and normal throttle. I'm going to put in a 3.42 after I do my engine build up, so my shift point will likely climb to around 2500+ (I'm guessing). I feel like I'm forgeting something though, I'll ponder some more.
 
After I replied to the "Tire Size" post, I remembered the "old school" way of altering your effective rear ratio. By increasing the circumference of the wheel, the effective ratio will drop, thus lowering the RPM range. Although, the "old school" way was about increasing RPM's, when changing ring gear and pinion's wasn't an option, but a little reverse theory would work. I can't remember, off the top of my head how to calculate it, but if you want to know, I can find out.
 
Good thoughts there MarkyB. Tire size does affect final drive ratio. This is why many off-roaders that have 40"+ tires have to run a high 4.xx to a mid 6.xx to turn the large tires. When I was talking about shift points, that was at WOT (wide open throttle). I can make it shift through the gears at less than 1500 rpm if driven easy enough.
Keep the feedback comming.


79 C20 Bonanza
350/400 4bbl Q-Jet
3.73 14-Bolt Corp.
 
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