Help with Clutch Issue - Nate where are you?

Discussion in '1947-1954' started by cmkruse, Jan 5, 2020.

  1. cmkruse

    cmkruse Member

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    Here's the problem - The clutch fork spring will not stay in the fork and then the fork hits the bolt heads on the rear of the Borg and beck pressure plate. Second issue: clutch will not release allowing shifting of gears. Here's some background: I have a rolling chassis with a 54 235 installed. We attempted to do a dry run on the engine and drive train to lube up the ring gears and check brake operation. With the rear end up on jack stands we proceeded to run the engine and engage the clutch - the clutch wouldn't release enough to place it it gear and gears just ground and would not engage. The clutch pack was the diaphram type listed for earlier engines I have a 49 panel- installed new from our host on original build up.
    So I figured that I needed the Borg and Beck style clutch ( as listed by our host) for a 54 engine so I order and installed it. Same issue with the inability to engage the gears and the fork spring popped loose when the fork hit the bolt head on the pressure plate due to the clutch pedal arm not being restrained by a floorboard ( this is a rolling chassis) which would hold the pedal arm down and the throw-out bearing way from the pressure plate.

    Troubleshooting and engine comparison - I have another 235 with the diaphram clutch pack installed and there is almost 1 1/2 inch clearance between the fork and the pressure plate. With the Borg and Beck (three finger type) pressure plate there is less than about 1/4 inch clearance with the fork installed.
    I installed a new clutch fork spring when installing the earlier pressure plate and when installing the later Borg and Beck pressure plate. The spring is installed according to the manual - curve out and horizontal placement in fork. The fork is a NOS replacement as well as the fork ball on initial build up. Comparing the fork grooves for the spring retainer seem the same - didn't actually measure the depth. The grooves seem too shallow to me to retain the spring very well. Spring quality is also suspect in my opinion it may not be good spring steel material.
    The throw-out bearings are the correct ones for the installations Diaphram type - long / Borg and Beck - short. as supplied with the clutch pack kits from our host.

    SO- I'm not sure where to go from here. I plan on removing the clutch pack this week and verifying the clutch plate is installed correctly. I am sure it is but then again anything is possible. Its a real bear trying to get the Borg and Beck style installed as it's thicker than the Diaphram type.

    NATE - can you help me out here? or anybody else that has had this issue.

    Clutch adjust arm is adjusted to almost end of adjustment and if clutch was to need adjustment later there would be no adjustment room left on the arm.

    Forum search indicates possible cause is clutch plate installed incorrectly. I believe both installations have had the plate installed correctly (plate marked / flywheel side) but will double check on next removal scheduled for this week.

    Any suggestions or help appreciated. I sure am getting tired of pulling the transmission trying to get this fixed.
     
    vwnate1 likes this.
  2. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Hi Craig ;

    Sorry for the late reply, I'm just not OnLine much these dayze .

    Maybe some photos of the various parts ? .

    Typically diaphragm typ clutch covers need much more freeplay and far less travel to operate .

    The face of the throw out bearing Vs. the ring or fingers of the pressure plate vary too .

    The clutch fork should span over the clutch ball firmly and never fall off/out .

    I hope some clear pictures will help us figure it out .

    Remember : the tranny side of the friction disc always has the splined 'snout' .
     
  3. cmkruse

    cmkruse Member

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    Hi Nate, well long story short! I installed the clutch four times using various combinations and not sure what caused the original issue but I finally got the diaphragm pressure plate to work with the long throw out bearing and everything came together and worked fine although I would like to have more adjustment on the clutch rod. I believe I had everything installed correctly on the original build but it’s possible that the plate was installed wrong from the start.
    It wouldn’t be the first time I screwed up but this one was a real head banger. Thanks for chiming in I know I can always count on you and the forum guys to bail me out. Sorry I had to call you out of repose but I was afraid I wasn’t going to get this one solved.
     
  4. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    The mail thing is : you got it working .

    Remember : with a rockford clutch cover you only want 1/4" ~ 1/2" freeplay in the pedal .

    With a diaphragm clutch cover you only want the clutch to release enough to prevent clashing of the gears, often this means 1" or more freeplay ~ flexing the diaphragm too much will shorten it's life .

    I bet you like that soft & easy clutch action ! .
     
  5. cmkruse

    cmkruse Member

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    Nate, is a rockford the same as the borg and beck style with the three fingers? Soft! at least it releases:D
     
  6. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    Yes ;

    There are two types of clutch covers ('pressure plates') : diaphragm and rockford, the rockford typ is the one with coil springs all'round it .
     
  7. cmkruse

    cmkruse Member

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    Once again I been educated :) Thanks Nate.
     
  8. vwnate1

    vwnate1 Member

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    I get FAR more help and education than I give .
     

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