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Oil supply?

graham

graham

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I have a 58 235 motor and want to know what is better for the oil system.
Going throw the head or throw the side of the block? My old motor is throw the head and the new one i just pick up goes throw the block. I guess it was a good find the motor had been rebuilt not long ago but they droped something in the motor but did not hurt it but needs a valve job bad valve seats so it going to a shop for a head job.
 

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By Pass Oil Filter

That's interesting , might as well leave it as is because it works and looks different.....
 
So it don't mater how the oil get there both ways are good? I think I'm going to leave it going into the head. Is there anything else I need to do befor I put it in?
 
A lot of people put the fitting into the head to provide extra oil into the top of the engine, it is an after-market or maybe a dealer shop advisory thingie. I've seen as many with the valve cover oiler as without. Neither of mine (216&235) have them at the moment and all seems well without the extra oiler.

My original 216 did have the extra oiler on top. Its dead and long ago recycled. My present 216 is out of a 1942, it is in my 1947. Prolly some of the really older guys from California know more about the history of this.
 
By Pass Oiling

graham said:
So it don't mater how the oil get there both ways are good? I think I'm going to leave it going into the head. Is there anything else I need to do before I put it in?
Click to expand...

Yes ~ the filter is designed as a by pass typ of unit , the line going to the cylinder head is an entirely different thing , a response to either internal oiling passages blocking up from cheapo paraffin based oils or , mis matching the wrong cylinder head to the block .

There was in fact , a GM kit to add this line . No Longer Available .

IMO , you cannot get too much oil to the rockers as they tend to wear a lot .

Adding the oil filter to this line , simplifies things a bit , not wrong , just different .

Measure the old filter element , IIRC (Hey , it's possible :D) it'll be either 5" or 7" tall , NAPA / WIX both carry them , you may have to order it in .

Never , EVER allow some unschooled nitwit to tell you these by pass oil filters " do nothing "
~ they're ignorant and don't know is all .

Stupid would be to fail to learn how important any oil filter is to your engine's health .
 
I'm wondering on this myself. My first attempt at rebuilding a 235 was a truck motor with mechanical lifters... which had the extra oil line behind the push rod cover. The one that was actually good enough to rebuild is a car engine with hydraulic lifters and no extra oil line behind the push rod cover. I've read conflicting information on how the oil travels to the rockers in these engines. Some say a special head bolt, others say "nah, that's not it." Any definitive FACTS would be appreciated. I wanna do the final assembly on this bad boy ONCE, ya know?

Thanks!

Damon
 
235 Oiling

The deal is : hydraulic lifters are never going to work well in a 235 because it is , by design , a low pressure , high volume oiling sastem .

Every year or two , GM increased the bore of the oil passage to the lifters in the futile hope that this time , they'd work O.K. but since pressure and volume are both lost early in the normal wear cycled of these sturdy , well designed engines , they always clatter at idle no matter what .

Add to this they rob power and reduce fuel economy and there's no reason to ever fir hydraulic lifters to a 235 engine .

The oiling bolt , stud or passageway , is the oil passage to the head to ensure sufficient oil reaches the rockers , has nothing to do with the lifters .

It is easy to mix up the head & block or just the correct stud , this is why GM made the by pass kits , even the original passages to the rockers often clogged up .
 
I wish I would've known this a few months ago. The machinist I took my engine to (a guy I trust with eons of experience) recommended the hydraulic lifters because they'd be better. The mystery deepens. Thanks for you input, Nate.

Damon
 
Clothing oil

Damon and guys.

I`ll understand that these inline engines with there narrow oil passages are needed to be taken good care of. At first its important to buy good quality oil that lubricates sufficient offcourse depending on the trucks daily purpose use! Read the lubricant spesifications closely and dont let the nice words mislead you here. Rather talk to some older truck owners/mechanics about the issue. I have been using Kendall oil recommended by the Amcar club guys here and have been using it fore many years now. Never ever had any trouble with my Deutz Fahr combiner, IH and Ford tractors , classic motorcycle or truck.
To prevent oil clothing wich indicates that the oil film is `nt optimal any more (to old or water in it) Its adviseble to take a regulair oil film test by just taking the dipstick out and splash some of the old oil on the thumb/finger (old method) and check the engine sound aswell wich tells you if its running smoothly or not ! I have never rushed my engines when i start them , they need the time to get in the right working temp. and them then they are running like working horses. Co2 checkup once in a while is good.
I allways check up on the pressure meter inside the cab when starting the engine. Changed out the 30 to a 60 lbs pressure gauge
(1955 235 car engine) because the engine is remanufactured and still strong. These old fashened bypass filters are `nt really cleaning the oil that well, changing out the filter more often is adviseble therefore.

I am shore these minor checkups will help to secure engine failure or breakdown.

Good luck martinius.
 
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Thank or the info can wait to get it back together and see how the what the new motor does. Now it just waiting for the head to get done and see what size clutch i need to order.
 
No Worries

It's done now , consider using my 60 second engine breakin method and be _sure_ to use Dino based breakin oil , after it has 5,000 miles or so , switch to thin synthetic Multi-Vis oils as they'll flow well enough to make those juice lifters work O.K. and never clog .

*DO* expect some clattering @ hot idle once the engine is broken in , this is normal and can be silenced by laying a 1/4" thick felt pad inside the rockerbox to muffle the sound .

The hydraulic valve adjustment is critical , follow the procedure on Deves'50 site
and expect to re adjust them after 1,000 miles , then they're good to go forever .
 
Thanks for the info just got the heads out of the shop and put them on and who ever had it before me had the valves to tight on the motor. So i guess when I get the new clutch in it will be ready to go in this weekend if every thing gose to plan. What should I set the valves at cold so I can get warmed up to set them right?
 
Hydraulic Valve Basic Adjust

Put each cylinder to TDC & adjust the tappet to zero lash then 1/4 turn more and hold the adjuster whilst you snug up the locknut .

Once it's running well and broken in , you adjust the tappets by idling the engine hot & slacking each tappet until it begins to click then tighten it until it *JUST* stops clicking , then hold it whilst you snug up the lock nut .
 
I got the motor in and runs good but the rear main seal leaks so something else i have to but that fine.
My Queston is the oil pressure is around 45 when i start it but after it warms up it drops down to around 10 to 15 psi at idle.
Is that good or should i change the oil pump when I fix the rear main seal?
 
Running

If the rear main leaks , be sure it's not the oil pan gasket as that's easy to do wrong , as is the rope typ oil seal .

Replace the mail bearings too as they have a lot to do with it .

Did you use hydraulic or solid lifters here ? . it makes a BIG difference in how to adjust them .

I missed an earlier comment about how some early engines have an oil line passing right through the block , this is normal and fine , GM changed the oiling path multiple times during the long production run .
 
The motor has solid lifters in it. The motor is used but has been rebuilt the pistons have .080 on them and I took the head to shop to get looked at they found 6 bad valves and seals. The guy that had it befor me said they could not get it to run good. So I left it the way it was the timming was way off and the lifters were to tight. I rest the timming and the lifters all ready and starts great now but the rear seal leaked about 1/4 quart in 30 min.The oil pan did not have any oil on it but ill check it again to make sure. Now the oil seal should I use rope or rubber seal the motor is a 58 witch one be better?
 

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Looking Good !

I always use the rope seals but if there's a neoprene one , I bet it dribbles less....
 
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