power brake update in a 46 1/2 ton

[Volker]

@Martinius

Sorry for delay but i have a lot of work this and next week (year end meetings with my customer). I think i can make pics from my update end of next week and come back with pic asap.
It's a lot of updates what i do at the moment. dual exhaust, dual intake, power brake and power steering. Also i come back with a lot of pics

 

[brit 50]

updates

Looking forward to them Volker,

 

[Blueflame236]

Volker.

Volker.
I am looking foreward to that Volker. Got the presidual valves in the mail today and they look good. An envelope came with some old fashion Hurst stickers for my new tranny. Dont know where to place it yet ?

Have an nice weekend .

 

[Volker]

finish and it works

enclosed the first pics about my brake, intake and exhaust swap.

Volker

 

[Bobby 57]

Nice job on the plumbing.very clean.keep up the good work.
Bobby

 

[Flashlight]

enclosed the first pics about my brake, intake and exhaust swap.

Volker

Sehr Schon! Nice neat work...gutes Deutsche handwerk. I kept my exhaust system up higher and had a difficult time going around my power booster as the two want to occupy the same space, but we did it, with much on the job manipulation, and foul language.

Flashlight

 

[vwnate1]

Nice Work !

Looking good there Volker .

I hope you know copper brake lines are not only illegal, they're dangerous .

 

[Volker]

copper line

@Nate: Could you explain me why the copper line are dangerous??

I bought the lines from a big vendor for brake systems in germany and he said they are original parts for VW

 

[willardgreen]

You have the soft copper to make the bends. I think it will not handle high pressure like the steel lines. I may be mistaken but I remember in school that copper was not compatible with hydraulic/brake fluid. I can't remember the reason, chemical reaction or something else. Get some nice shinny stainless steel in stead.

 

[vwnate1]

Brake Lines

@Nate: Could you explain me why the copper line are dangerous??

I bought the lines from a big vendor for brake systems in germany and he said they are original parts for VW

That vendor LIED to you ! no VW ever made (going back to 1951 the 1st. year of Hydraulic brakes on the Export Models) EVER had copper tubing . period ~ not on brake nor fuel , I see many incorrect ' restorations ' using dangerous copper fuel tubing .

It's not rated for the high pressure used in braking systems .

It's also prone to get vibration caused stress cracks that will fail catastrophically , always at the worst possible moment .

InLine Tube Co. sells properly made steel lines , or you can buy a flaring tool and a tubing cutter & fool around teaching yourself how to make proper inverted flares on the ends then just buy steel tubing in bulk and bend it up by hand , install the fitting & flare the ends , you'll be good to go .

IIRC , Germany still has rather stringent safety inspections , hopefully on Old Timers too , they'll flunk it for copper lines .

 

[Volker]

@Nate

i meet with my car inspector today and ask him about the copper line. He said to me i have hardened copper lines anfd they are very good.
I asked whats the different. The answer Home Depot etc sells lines with 99 percent copper. The brake lines i have are 70% copper and a lot of other metals. Therefore the lines are good for the pressure and he gave me the OK for my brake system. And write it down in my license

 

[brit 50]

Copper lines

They used to be legal over here but for many years now they have to be a mix of copper and nickel i think it is, Kunifer they call it over here, think it's only 10% nickel but it makes a big difference

 

[Blueflame236]

Carter YF and dual exhaust outlet !

This looks very nice Volker. A great inspiration to get the same job done one my own truck next spring i `ll hope. I allready bought the parts as the power brake booster i am gonna use is a bit different as yours.

I have misunderstood a bit as i thought you would install a double exhaust system , but you made a dual outlet on a single exhaust pipe , and a dual intake carb. setup.

You can imagine that i am intrested to know the day you start up your truck again how it will work ? The carbs you have are Carter YF carbs right with auto choke? Do you use the carb. stove towards the exhaust pipes ?

When this forum is discussing your brake patent with the copper/steel tubes i used the same easy bending tubes on the carb system i have now. A plummer in my village said to me that they are used for the parafin oil systems and that they are made for high pressure tollorance.

But i am qurious about the tube product-name you have used ? maybe you could send me an PM with this information.

Thanks for the pics. Martinius

enclosed the first pics about my brake, intake and exhaust swap.

Volker

 

[Blueflame236]

Experiment bendable copper tube lying into brake/hydraulic fluid

Hobby doctor chemical Experiment.

In some days i am going to do a litle experiment here at home with the mentioned Cunifer10 tubes. I have the bendable thick wall tubes and will put one piece in DOT 5 brake fluid and the other in my tractor hydraulic fluid.

Then see if the tube peaces reacts in these chemical substance after 2-3 months. Pictures and proves will be documented.

Get back to you on this issue , Martinius.

You have the soft copper to make the bends. I think it will not handle high pressure like the steel lines. I may be mistaken but I remember in school that copper was not compatible with hydraulic/brake fluid. I can't remember the reason, chemical reaction or something else. Get some nice shinny stainless steel in stead.

 

[vwnate1]

Dual Exhaust

I don't quite ken why a dual outlet manifold is plumbed into a single exhaust pipe....

It kinda negates the total effect although it'll sound mellower .

 

[Volker]

brake lines

the exact specifikation

diameter 4,75 mm
thickness 0,7 mm
length 5 m
pressure 350 bar
CuNi10Fe1Mn- brake line
request DIN 74233 + 74234
for VW, Audi, BMW and Mercedes

ordered by http://www.stevens-wesel.de/bremsen.htm

 

[vwnate1]

That's Nice ;

Now , go into any brand Motor Vehicle Dealership on THE PLANET EARTH and find me _one_ new one with copper brake pipes .

It ain't gonna happen .

 

[Volker]

@Nate

you are right, i can't find any vehicle with copper lines but at the aftermarket you can find a lot of these parts.
Look at a machine with hydraulic systems. a lot of machines works with copper line at the pressure section.

3 example for the power of the industry:

example 1: lot of specialists says silicon brake fluid is better as the normal brake fluid because isn't hygroscopic but the automobil industry says silicon is not good and the risk of brake failures are very high. original brake fluid takes water and destroy all rubber things. the industry sell repair parts and is very happy about the business.
...and the safety inspection in germany says this brake fluid is not allowed.

example 2: we have in germany a special micro filter for engine oil. lot of specialists made tests and say i can use engine oil for 50.000 km without changing (tested in 500 yellow cabs and printed in all automotive newspapers). the industry says it's not possible and destroy the engine.
...and the safety inspection in germany says this oil filter is not allowed.

example 3: all safety inspector says i can't drive over 50MPH with my old truck. I bought Patricks Gears and drive 65MPH It's right it's not comfortable but it's possible and give me a lot of fun. If i'm going the way of the german law i have to glue a sign with 80 (maximum speed 80 kmh) on my truck. Never and drive only the right lane on the autobahn Never again

Therefore we are the best professionals because we test every things. and risk our life for our fun. We are going and paint our car without masks, and we are happy about the result.

The life is too short to going only on the safest way of life.

 

[vwnate1]

Just So !

As a long time German car lover I hertily agree .

Here in Los Angeles (land of fruits , nuts & flakes) there was a man who bought a brandy new Porsche 356 Coupe and never changed the oil ~ he had a Diatamacious Earth filter in it and he changed that but never once changed the actual oil , he'd just top it up from time to time , he was the talk of all the local Dealer mechanics for years & years and when he finally traded it in for a new Porsche (912 IIRC) , he insisted they transfer the old oil from his 356 into his new one.... .

Weird but true .

Super fine oil filters are not liked by many manufacturers because they remove the oil's important additives .

Silicon DOT-5 brake fluid is good in _some_ applications ~ in cold weather cars it collacts water and freezes blocking the brake pipes or it can cause severe rusting from the inside out , again only in one tiny little spot .

I've had it in my 1960 VW # 117 SDeLuxe Sliding Roof Sedan for over 10 years and never any problems .

IMO , the high failure rate is due to lazy ' mechanics ' not doing the work correctly ~ we used it for several years in the L.A.P.D. Fleet before lazy mechanics screwed it all up .

# 3 : you can't wiln a battle of wits with an un - armed opponent , that inspector is an idiot , I can't help you there .

From where I sit , you and I are both on the same page and I think you're aware I drive my old Mercedes W-123 diesel Coupe as a rally car , I don't think it unsafe , others have a differing opinion of that .

I still won't ever use copper brake likes .

 

[Blueflame236]

I still won`t ever use copper brake lines?

Nate

The enclosed website in Volkers thread has an detailed product specification. As you understand the big EU communety has to follow the same safety standard rules. In this case the text says ;

Die Alternative zu rostigen Bremsleitungen sind unsere Bremsleitungen aus rostfreiem Kunifer10. Das nahtlos gezogene Kunifer10-Rohr ist eine für Bremsleitungen zugelassene Legierung aus Kupfer(CU), Nickel(NI) und Eisen(FER). Es rostet nicht und ist daher für unsere klassischen Autos ideal geeignet.

Google translate;
The alternative to rusty brake lines are our brake lines stainless Kunifer10. The Kunifer10 seamless drawn tube is approved for brake lines alloy of copper (Cu), nickel (NI) and iron (ARR). It does not rust and is making it ideal for our classic cars.

German Krupp wich is one of the biggest metal industry in the world produces Kunifer10 wich is TUV Aproved for excactly brakelines !

Facts;http://www.hamel.nl/Files/File/documentatie/Cunifer_GB.pdf

Stainless steel Cheap Alternative is;http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Metal-brake-lines-Chev-Buick-Olds-GM-trucks-1936-1955-/380301725081?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ATruck%7CMake%3AChevrolet%7CYear%3A1950&hash=item588bbfcd99


Hope this gives some reflekting thoughts on the subject.
Martinius.

As a long time German car lover I hertily agree .

Here in Los Angeles (land of fruits , nuts & flakes) there was a man who bought a brandy new Porsche 356 Coupe and never changed the oil ~ he had a Diatamacious Earth filter in it and he changed that but never once changed the actual oil , he'd just top it up from time to time , he was the talk of all the local Dealer mechanics for years & years and when he finally traded it in for a new Porsche (912 IIRC) , he insisted they transfer the old oil from his 356 into his new one.... .

Weird but true .

Super fine oil filters are not liked by many manufacturers because they remove the oil's important additives .

Silicon DOT-5 brake fluid is good in _some_ applications ~ in cold weather cars it collacts water and freezes blocking the brake pipes or it can cause severe rusting from the inside out , again only in one tiny little spot .

I've had it in my 1960 VW # 117 SDeLuxe Sliding Roof Sedan for over 10 years and never any problems .

IMO , the high failure rate is due to lazy ' mechanics ' not doing the work correctly ~ we used it for several years in the L.A.P.D. Fleet before lazy mechanics screwed it all up .

# 3 : you can't wiln a battle of wits with an un - armed opponent , that inspector is an idiot , I can't help you there .

From where I sit , you and I are both on the same page and I think you're aware I drive my old Mercedes W-123 diesel Coupe as a rally car , I don't think it unsafe , others have a differing opinion of that .

I still won't ever use copper brake likes .