Hey guys, I need some help here. My dad has a 54 with a 235. Still has single 1 bbl, converted to 12 volt long time ago. Has Pertronix ignition in the old distributor. This motor was running fine until about 2 weeks ago. We backed the ole girl out of the garage, got to the end of the drive (about 40 feet) and she died like out of gas. No gauge working presently so we figured we had forgot the last time we filled her up. Filled the tank, hit the starter, nothin'. We figured then that the coil had gone bad. Checked for spark at the plugs, have spark. Figured fuel pump may be bad. Checked fuel line at carb, has fuel. This weekend we were playing with it and found the distributor would hardly turn by hand when taken out. Figured that may have been the issue. Changed it, still same problem except now we are getting it to sound like it is trying to start once in a while. All the wires seem to be hooked up to the dist and coil the same way they were when running fine. We have taken the valve cover off and the valves are all opening and closing. We have good compression with plugs out, one at a time. I have tried to use starting fluid lightly with no luck. We are really stumped on this one. Is it possible that she somehow skipped time? How can I check timing without it running? Seems so odd it ran fine up until then and now we can't get even a good pop out of her. Thanks for your help.
-
We have upgraded our forum software! See here for details.
Problem with 235...please help!!!
- Thread starter My ole 53
- Start date
Bossman
Member
RE: Problem with 235...please help!
Here is what I did to get my 235 (also works for 216) close enough to start without running the engine. This comes from the Chevy Truck Shop Manual for 1948 - 1952...
Remove the #1 (front) spark plug. With switch off, insert a screw driver into plug hole and rotate the engine by using hand rotation of fan until the piston is felt to come up to Top Dead Center.
Pop off distributer cap and see where which plug wire rotor is pointing to. That should be plug wire #1. Check rest of plug wires for proper firing order.
Look through the observation window on the clutch housing on the passenger side of the engine. You will see the flywheel and a needle indicator. Somewhere close to where #1 is at TDC you should see "U/C" on the flywheel. Align that with the needle and the piston should be at TDC.
Now you can set the distributor until the rotor is properly set for #1 to fire. This will be where the points are just slightly open.
When running, a timing light should illuminate the ball (looks like a half a BB) on the flywheel. It is close to the "U/C" on the flywheel. There is also a triangle on the flywheel in the same basic area, but that is used for checking exhaust valve timing and cam gear lash, according to the book. If you don't see any of these marks on the flywheel, keep rotating the engine by hand until you find them, you may be 180 out on the location of the distributor.
One other thing to check is that the polarity of the distributor is proper through the coil. The "-" side from the coil should come to the distributor connection. I have heard that some systems won't work if the coil wiring is reversed.
Bossman...
Here is what I did to get my 235 (also works for 216) close enough to start without running the engine. This comes from the Chevy Truck Shop Manual for 1948 - 1952...
Remove the #1 (front) spark plug. With switch off, insert a screw driver into plug hole and rotate the engine by using hand rotation of fan until the piston is felt to come up to Top Dead Center.
Pop off distributer cap and see where which plug wire rotor is pointing to. That should be plug wire #1. Check rest of plug wires for proper firing order.
Look through the observation window on the clutch housing on the passenger side of the engine. You will see the flywheel and a needle indicator. Somewhere close to where #1 is at TDC you should see "U/C" on the flywheel. Align that with the needle and the piston should be at TDC.
Now you can set the distributor until the rotor is properly set for #1 to fire. This will be where the points are just slightly open.
When running, a timing light should illuminate the ball (looks like a half a BB) on the flywheel. It is close to the "U/C" on the flywheel. There is also a triangle on the flywheel in the same basic area, but that is used for checking exhaust valve timing and cam gear lash, according to the book. If you don't see any of these marks on the flywheel, keep rotating the engine by hand until you find them, you may be 180 out on the location of the distributor.
One other thing to check is that the polarity of the distributor is proper through the coil. The "-" side from the coil should come to the distributor connection. I have heard that some systems won't work if the coil wiring is reversed.
Bossman...
RE: Problem with 235
[updated:LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-06 AT 09:05 AM (CST)]What Bossman said ! .
Some flywheels don't have the U/C stamping , only the triangle or a chevron and it is often obsured by dirt , rust or road grime .
Use it to time your ignition like he said and you should be good to go .
I prefer to time the ignition to the BB at all times , both static and when checking it dynamically with the engine running .
-Nate
[updated:LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-06 AT 09:05 AM (CST)]What Bossman said ! .
Some flywheels don't have the U/C stamping , only the triangle or a chevron and it is often obsured by dirt , rust or road grime .
Use it to time your ignition like he said and you should be good to go .
I prefer to time the ignition to the BB at all times , both static and when checking it dynamically with the engine running .
-Nate
RE: Problem with 235
Guys we got 'er goin'. We took the intake off just to make sure all was well there. It was. We then got the BB to the bottom, cleaned it off good, painted it white and set it to the needle. We looked at the rotor and put #1 wire there on the cap. Set the others in the firing order, cranked a little while to get fuel, hit the key and she fired the first time! Played with the distributor a little to get it smooth, and she's doin' fine now. Need to set the timing to 100% right and then run it til warm and set the valves. This ole girl only has 50k original miles and Dad's the 3rd owner since new. We've done brakes, 12v conversion, trans & rear diff and man what a ride! I'm in the process of doing my 51 now. Camaro sub, Camaro rear, etc, etc. Should be done around 2010 or so. (3 kids and wife kinda slow things down a bit). Thanks for the help.
Guys we got 'er goin'. We took the intake off just to make sure all was well there. It was. We then got the BB to the bottom, cleaned it off good, painted it white and set it to the needle. We looked at the rotor and put #1 wire there on the cap. Set the others in the firing order, cranked a little while to get fuel, hit the key and she fired the first time! Played with the distributor a little to get it smooth, and she's doin' fine now. Need to set the timing to 100% right and then run it til warm and set the valves. This ole girl only has 50k original miles and Dad's the 3rd owner since new. We've done brakes, 12v conversion, trans & rear diff and man what a ride! I'm in the process of doing my 51 now. Camaro sub, Camaro rear, etc, etc. Should be done around 2010 or so. (3 kids and wife kinda slow things down a bit). Thanks for the help.
Bossman
Member
RE: Problem with 235
I'm glad to hear the suggestions helped out. One thing I am learning from this forum is persistence and patience. Vnate has saved my bottom a few times, and others have been very willing to extend tribal knowledge that you just can't find in books anymore. This group is great for us "old truck" enthusiasts.
I'm glad to hear the suggestions helped out. One thing I am learning from this forum is persistence and patience. Vnate has saved my bottom a few times, and others have been very willing to extend tribal knowledge that you just can't find in books anymore. This group is great for us "old truck" enthusiasts.
RE: Experiance
[updated:LAST EDITED ON Jan-12-06 AT 10:04 PM (CST)]Thanx Bossman ;
It is funny how most of my life I heard complaints about " all you ever do is drive and work on that old junk " and now being familiar with these old nails is _finally_ coming in handy .
I've been enamored of old trucks of various stripes since I grew up on the farm woring with and on , them .
I've never been as happy with a modern truck as I am behind the big fat steering wheel of an old Chevy .
For work or play (?there's a differance ?!) gimme an inline
6 - banger every time .
Remember : " If It Drives Like A Truck , It's NOT a Chevrolet ! " .
Maybe some day I'll stumble into a GMC , that should be really sweet .
-Nate
[updated:LAST EDITED ON Jan-12-06 AT 10:04 PM (CST)]Thanx Bossman ;
It is funny how most of my life I heard complaints about " all you ever do is drive and work on that old junk " and now being familiar with these old nails is _finally_ coming in handy .
I've been enamored of old trucks of various stripes since I grew up on the farm woring with and on , them .
I've never been as happy with a modern truck as I am behind the big fat steering wheel of an old Chevy .
For work or play (?there's a differance ?!) gimme an inline
6 - banger every time .
Remember : " If It Drives Like A Truck , It's NOT a Chevrolet ! " .
Maybe some day I'll stumble into a GMC , that should be really sweet .
-Nate