Pulling the Engine in a 54

[Climberdad]

Hello all,

Been enjoying the truck a bunch. Pulled a trailer full of kids around on Halloween. Too much fun!!!

Weather is cooling off - time to get a big project done.

I'm in the process of removing the engine to do a rebuild and clean up the engine compartment.

Question is this. How do you get it out? The radiator support is one big square piece with a set of cross supports. Also, the Radiator support seems to be the mounting point for the entire front clip. I need to try to come out the front as I am doing this in my garage and do not have the ceiling height to go straight up. Also, I was hoping to pull the engine and tranny together.

Been scratching my head on this and cannot figure out the answer. How have you guys done this?

 

[Kens 50 PU]

Bruce, you are correct in thinking that the radiator support is the mounting point for the entire front clip. Everything from the firewall forward is affected by the placement of the radiator support. If you want to remove the engine and tranny as one unit, the only way I know of is to remove the entire front clip. If you decide to go that route, now would be the time to check for rusty areas that you could repair, replace, etc, inspect the front end, do touch-up painting etc.

Depends on what you really want or need to do to the engine. Do you think it needs a rebuild or just cosmetic "enhancement"? There are ways of cleaning and painting if that is all you need to do to it.

 

[ol' chebby]

Drop the front bumper..it makes things easier. Next undo the 2 bolts under the radiator, then the fender bolts. Remove the hood, have a friend help to remove the clip after removing and labeling the wire harness. Now you can yank the engine out through the front...much easier.

 

[Climberdad]

Bruce, you are correct in thinking that the radiator support is the mounting point for the entire front clip. Everything from the firewall forward is affected by the placement of the radiator support. If you want to remove the engine and tranny as one unit, the only way I know of is to remove the entire front clip. If you decide to go that route, now would be the time to check for rusty areas that you could repair, replace, etc, inspect the front end, do touch-up painting etc.

Depends on what you really want or need to do to the engine. Do you think it needs a rebuild or just cosmetic "enhancement"? There are ways of cleaning and painting if that is all you need to do to it.

Thanks,

No it's coming out. My compression numbers are all over the place. The #4 cylinder wall is pitted. From what I have been able the determine - this engine has never been touched...

Anyone ever heard of creating a stroker out of a 235?

 

[Climberdad]

Drop the front bumper..it makes things easier. Next undo the 2 bolts under the radiator, then the fender bolts. Remove the hood, have a friend help to remove the clip after removing and labeling the wire harness. Now you can yank the engine out through the front...much easier.

Thanks,

That's pretty much what I'd determined. I appreciate the help.

 

[Kens 50 PU]

Here's the best advice I've ever given on this forum. Get in touch with Coilover. He's 40 miles or so from you. Go visit him and pick his brain. He'll steer you in the right direction. He'll let you know the best way to attack your project and give you the easiest and best way to "git r done"! If I lived that close to him, he'd want my Social Security number so he could claim me an a dependent! Plain ol' or Plano, he's your man!

 

[vwnate1]

Stroker 235 !

You're kidding right ? .

216 , 235 and 261 engines are allready stroked beyond imagination , that's why they cannot be run over 3,200 RPM's for long else the connecting rod will snap right at the wrist pin , ruining both the cylinder block and your day... .

There's a lot been writtenhere about powering up the 235 engine , it's easy , just takes a bit of ca$h and some time .

Don't go crazy on the rebuild , just get it good then add a 261 cam and some multi carbys (big 4BBL is a waste of time & $) , then consider throwing $1,600.00 into a blue printed cylinder head , that'll give you a HUGE increase in Tractible Power and allow you to spank most any other old InLine 6 banger , Fentons are junk , not suitable for street driving , have your exhaust manifold modified to '54 Corvette specs and feel the power... there's a good thread about whom to use on the Task Force pages of this site .

I hope this helps , remember : the firewall gets the same color paint as the exterior of the cab , take pictures of the crayon marking on it now ,_BEFORE_
they get lost and use a lumber crayon to replicate them after the new paint is on for the true " factory " look , the inner fender panels are supposed to be gloss black, they'll dull a tiny bit as the years go by...

Listen closely to Evan ,follow his lead for the best and easiest job and outcome .

 

[Larrys 48]

Fwiw

I was able to pull the old 292 and install my donor 235 without pulling the whole front clip. I removed the front bumper, radiator and all of the support rods. I was able to shimmy the engine out between and over the opening between the main radiator support frame with a cherry picker in my garage. If you decide to go this route, I would unbolt the transmission and remove it seperately. My rig is remarkably rust free and I may someday in the future do a full frame off rebuild to check those contact areas...

 

[Larrys 48]

Oh yeah - I also pulled the grill as one unit...

 

[Climberdad]

You're kidding right ? .

216 , 235 and 261 engines are allready stroked beyond imagination , that's why they cannot be run over 3,200 RPM's for long else the connecting rod will snap right at the wrist pin , ruining both the cylinder block and your day... .

There's a lot been writtenhere about powering up the 235 engine , it's easy , just takes a bit of ca$h and some time .

Don't go crazy on the rebuild , just get it good then add a 261 cam and some multi carbys (big 4BBL is a waste of time & $) , then consider throwing $1,600.00 into a blue printed cylinder head , that'll give you a HUGE increase in Tractible Power and allow you to spank most any other old InLine 6 banger , Fentons are junk , not suitable for street driving , have your exhaust manifold modified to '54 Corvette specs and feel the power... there's a good thread about whom to use on the Task Force pages of this site .

I hope this helps , remember : the firewall gets the same color paint as the exterior of the cab , take pictures of the crayon marking on it now ,_BEFORE_
they get lost and use a lumber crayon to replicate them after the new paint is on for the true " factory " look , the inner fender panels are supposed to be gloss black, they'll dull a tiny bit as the years go by...

Listen closely to Evan ,follow his lead for the best and easiest job and outcome .

Nate,

Thanks for your insight. The stroker comment was to start conversation

I am not trying to create a race car - just something I can drive on the highway and not blow it up...

I do like the idea of period correct drivetrain modifications though. Like the 54 Corvette exhaust manifold. The dual carbs. people had a lot of fun hopping up these vehicles back in the day. Also, when I go to car shows it's always the same thing - V8 and a lot of chrome... If that is what you are into - go for it. But I'd love to pop the hood on a stock looking 50's truck and see a sweet looking example of what people did back then.

I realize that I can not ignore the transmission and rear end in this equasion. I plan to put the 3.55 gear set in the rear end. I'm not sure about the transmission. I definitely want to keep the 3 on the tree. So I'm open to suggestions on this topic. Is there a synchro between 2nd and 3rd? This tranny was rebuilt before I got it, but it always grinds going from 2nd to 3rd.

I plan to call Evan next week when I get back in town and get his thoughts - It's a huge bonus to have a resource like that as close as he is.

Also - thanks for the info on the paint locations. I plan to clean that up completely. What do mean by "Crayon Markings"?

Again - Thanks!

 

[Climberdad]

I was able to pull the old 292 and install my donor 235 without pulling the whole front clip. I removed the front bumper, radiator and all of the support rods. I was able to shimmy the engine out between and over the opening between the main radiator support frame with a cherry picker in my garage. If you decide to go this route, I would unbolt the transmission and remove it seperately. My rig is remarkably rust free and I may someday in the future do a full frame off rebuild to check those contact areas...

Larry,

Thanks - You have a good point. There is really no reason to have to pull the engine and tranny together. I can easily seperate them and squeeze the engine out with no more disassembly. I guess I've always pulled them as a unit and didn't really think past that.

This is why I stop and think about things...

 

[Kens 50 PU]

Bruce, yes the tranny is synchronized between 2nd and 3rd gears. If yours grinds, it is probably just in need of adjustment of either the clutch or shifter arms. Another issue might be how you actually shift it. It needs to be shifted very deliberately. Nate has written several very good posts on the proper way to shift these trucks.

I think you'll be very pleased with the 3.55 gear set. You'd be surprised at how much less RPM you'll run at all speeds once you've done that.

How about some pics of your ride?

Ken

 

[Climberdad]

Bruce, yes the tranny is synchronized between 2nd and 3rd gears. If yours grinds, it is probably just in need of adjustment of either the clutch or shifter arms. Another issue might be how you actually shift it. It needs to be shifted very deliberately. Nate has written several very good posts on the proper way to shift these trucks.

I think you'll be very pleased with the 3.55 gear set. You'd be surprised at how much less RPM you'll run at all speeds once you've done that.

How about some pics of your ride?

Ken

Ken,

Here's some pics: https://talk.classicparts.com/showthread.php?t=7204&page=3

Thanks for the info on the tranny. Yes, I shift it very deliberately and have no issues other than between 2nd and 3rd. If I let the rpms come down to an idle, it will shift. Anything above an idle it will grind. Problem has been - that the engine has been weak and I need the momentum going into 3rd.

I'll take a look inside when I have it out.

Cheers

 

[vwnate1]

Conversating !

Bruce ;

When the truck went down the assembly line the factory workers made a few marks with crayons indicating it was passed QC or what RPO's it was scheduled for , like that ~ look for any markings , IIRC most were in yellow or white crayon or grease pencil .

Before you junk the tranny , look up my old post on _pilot_ bearings as this is an Oillite bushing and when it wears out , it causes poor shifting even when the synchros are O.K. ~ when the tranny is " rebuilt " (usually more like overhauled) thjey slap on new bronze synchro rings but rarely replace the $endy synchro _HUB_ , this means it'll maybe shift O.K. for 15,000 miles before grinding again but no matter , a real vintage trucker soon lears to not only keep the engine sharply tunes and the lowest possible idle speed
but also how to " double clutch " when shifting so it'll shift smoothly and quietly in spite of worn out tranny and bum clutch

Look up my tire size info as the correct outer diameter tire also makes a big differance how fast it'll cruise on the freeway...

Agreed , I see those V-ates (yawn) anyone can do that , learing how to make an InLine 6 Banger ROAR is fun and rewarding , if it's done correctly , engine life , power and economy are all improved , unlike most Hot Rods .

Small multi carbys and the 261 cam coupled with Patric's 3.55 gears will make a real stormer out of your old AD but not good to street race nor do burn outs....

-Nate

Nate,

Thanks for your insight. The stroker comment was to start conversation

I am not trying to create a race car - just something I can drive on the highway and not blow it up...

I do like the idea of period correct drivetrain modifications though. Like the 54 Corvette exhaust manifold. The dual carbs. people had a lot of fun hopping up these vehicles back in the day. Also, when I go to car shows it's always the same thing - V8 and a lot of chrome... If that is what you are into - go for it. But I'd love to pop the hood on a stock looking 50's truck and see a sweet looking example of what people did back then.

I realize that I can not ignore the transmission and rear end in this equasion. I plan to put the 3.55 gear set in the rear end. I'm not sure about the transmission. I definitely want to keep the 3 on the tree. So I'm open to suggestions on this topic. Is there a synchro between 2nd and 3rd? This tranny was rebuilt before I got it, but it always grinds going from 2nd to 3rd.

I plan to call Evan next week when I get back in town and get his thoughts - It's a huge bonus to have a resource like that as close as he is.

Also - thanks for the info on the paint locations. I plan to clean that up completely. What do mean by "Crayon Markings"?

Again - Thanks!

 

[Thunder54]

The hard way

Bruce,

Nate is right. I believe your tranny is likely worn, or may need fluid if it is grinding, but double clutching will likely solve the grinding so no one else knows but us.

You will LOVE the 3:55 gears tied to your 235.

I post a photo here of just how I removed Thunder's engine in my driveway 9 years ago.

Jim

 

[Climberdad]

Nate,

Got out there today and noticed what your were talking about on the grease pencil markings - pretty cool!

I'm running the tall radials already. That helped a bunch.

Thanks!

Bruce ;

When the truck went down the assembly line the factory workers made a few marks with crayons indicating it was passed QC or what RPO's it was scheduled for , like that ~ look for any markings , IIRC most were in yellow or white crayon or grease pencil .

Before you junk the tranny , look up my old post on _pilot_ bearings as this is an Oillite bushing and when it wears out , it causes poor shifting even when the synchros are O.K. ~ when the tranny is " rebuilt " (usually more like overhauled) thjey slap on new bronze synchro rings but rarely replace the $endy synchro _HUB_ , this means it'll maybe shift O.K. for 15,000 miles before grinding again but no matter , a real vintage trucker soon lears to not only keep the engine sharply tunes and the lowest possible idle speed
but also how to " double clutch " when shifting so it'll shift smoothly and quietly in spite of worn out tranny and bum clutch

Look up my tire size info as the correct outer diameter tire also makes a big differance how fast it'll cruise on the freeway...

Agreed , I see those V-ates (yawn) anyone can do that , learing how to make an InLine 6 Banger ROAR is fun and rewarding , if it's done correctly , engine life , power and economy are all improved , unlike most Hot Rods .

Small multi carbys and the 261 cam coupled with Patric's 3.55 gears will make a real stormer out of your old AD but not good to street race nor do burn outs....

-Nate

 

[Climberdad]

Jim,

Thanks. I'll dig into the tranny when I get it out. I got the garage cleaned out today so I have some room to work on this stuff.

I think you had the benefit of a little less sheet metal when you pulled your engine

Cheers!

Bruce,

Nate is right. I believe your tranny is likely worn, or may need fluid if it is grinding, but double clutching will likely solve the grinding so no one else knows but us.

You will LOVE the 3:55 gears tied to your 235.

I post a photo here of just how I removed Thunder's engine in my driveway 9 years ago.

Jim

 

[vwnate1]

You're Welcome Bruce

I hope you're not taking that loverly truck apart.....

I really LOVE your grille gaurd ! most folks don't understand the true '40's look and so discard these hard to find acessories .

-Nate

Nate,

Got out there today and noticed what your were talking about on the grease pencil markings - pretty cool!

I'm running the tall radials already. That helped a bunch.

Thanks!

 

[Climberdad]

Nate,

Thanks for the compliments - it is a very nice truck.

I'm leaving it as is. Just making some improvements. It is way to nice to mess up.

I did remove the grille guard. It is stored away in a safe place It may end up back on - but for now I prefer the look with out it.

Cheers!

I hope you're not taking that loverly truck apart.....

I really LOVE your grille gaurd ! most folks don't understand the true '40's look and so discard these hard to find acessories .

-Nate