Looking for Engineering advice (frame)

[Hi-Po C-10]

Ok, I swapped over from the other board to here because I couldn't get an answer.

Ok I'm building a 64 c10 that looks close to stock, but I have a 454 bbc that I've built for it and it has a TKO 500 5 speed. Through various computer dyno programs I'm expecting to have this motor make close to 600 ft. lbs of torque.. even if not 600 .. it'll still be more than what the 292 I6 made.

I'd like to drag race it sometimes or just push my right foot down and let the engine go to work.

What I'm concerned about it frame twist. How do I keep 600ft Lbs. of torque (est. ) under the hood and also, not destroy my frame and newly painted truck?

The frame is off of the cab currently and I am getting ready to paint it..

What kind of reinforcement do you recommend and where so I don't destroy my truck and so it can hold the torque of the motor?

I'm hoping Lakeroadster may weigh in on this one.

Thanks!

Alex

 

[Lakeroadster]

Tell us more about your truck. Will you be able to hook all that horsepower to the ground?

• Stock trailing arm rear suspension?
• Rear axle, stock 12 bolt, open or posi?
• Tires, what will you be using?
• Is your frame totally stock?
• Have you c-notched the frame?
• Are you running coil springs in the stock locations or bags / coilovers / leaves or ??
• Motor mounts, stock style or modified?
• Transmission type?
• Transmission cross member ?

 

[Rich 5150 69]

Unless you've made serious suspension mods to your truck, it will not hook up, there are several low 11 high 10 trucks that have no frame mods done other than rear suspension, no other frame mods done.

 

[coilover]

Frame should be okay but you're on the trannys limit. The "500" in the TKO 500 is the max torque it's designed for. A TKO 600 would be a better unit for this torque monster. Of course if it doesn't hook up tight then the torque results in tire spin and takes stress off the trans. From the flywheel to the lug nuts every part of the driveline needs to be primo parts; it's expensive but you won't have to be trailered back from the strip with a broken toy. 11,000hp 18,500 lbft torque example built right that seldom breaks.

 

[Hi-Po C-10]

Sorry for the late reply.. have been slaving on the LS1 Rx7.. I've been doing an oil cooler as a heater core for -AN fittings. it should never leak again! (you have to pull the dash to change one.. it sucks) anyway!

Wow that rig is is crazy Coilover!

As of now, I will be running coil overs that attach to the ends of the trailing arms. The trailing arms have adjustable brackets so I can move them up and down and adjust tire hit. They have heim joint connections. (porterbuilt stuff, I found)

I know the TKO -500 is at it's limit. :/ I'll probably drive it on the street nicely with it in. I'm looking at Jerico 4 speeds once I save up some cash so I can do it right. I really don't want to run an Auto, for me it's not as fun.

I'm looking at a rear tire somewhere between 29-31" tall and 12-15" wide (drag radial for street, slick for track). I slightly tubed the stepside and it still retains the stock frame.. aka. I'm close to the limit on tire width. The rear end will be getting narrowed I'm considering 4.10's in the rear with a Eaton and a spool I can swap out if I choose for when I go to the track. Looking at building a 9" but may just rebuild the 12 bolt and shorten it for now to get the project 95% done.

I don't have a C-notch, but have been looking at Lakeroadsters threads concerning it on the other board. I want it to be strong if I have to do it. I had 4" drop springs in the back before and it was ok, but I'm thinking for it to hook up I may want to notch it so I can set the truck up to ride more flat at the strip with the coil overs. (thoughts on that?.. do I need to notch it? I'm not a ground slam guy at all so not truly familiar)

I have some tubular motor mount bars I guess you'd call them (they bolt to the frame..CPP style? may weld them, unsure at this time) and am planning on running some Moroso solid mounts as I don't think rubber or polyurethane will last if I hit that right pedal. I'm running a CPP transmission cross-member for now.. it bolts up.. I'm open to change that though.. I will run a rubber transmission mount / bushings so I don't break my tail shaft off.. that would be bad.

I've looked at full roll cages to help keep everything connected / a little more rigid but there is a 6 month wait around here to get someone to do it and inspected.. and I'm really not sure how fast I'm going to go.. I do want to plant the power .. I think the roll out on the standard transmission and hopefully some good driving will help it connect to the ground. The truck went 9.8 in the 1/8 mile with the TKO, 3.73's an open diff, 26" radials, stock suspension, and a crappy 350. ( soo about 15.29 in the 1/4?)

I considered boxing the frame, but am worried about spot stress cracks as I'm going to have gaps for cross members motor mounts etc.

The goal with the Big Block Chevy build was to go 12.5 in the quarter or better. But with j&e pistons, brodix heads, Bullit roller cam, Pro Systems carb.. I may have stepped up a little more than I originally intended to ( I've collected parts for a while now).. so just in case I'd like to build this frame correctly and plant the power.. If that means swapping to a 4 link.. well I'll do it.. just really , really wont like doing that. And I'd like a little room to grow if the .. "I need to go faster!" bug hits me..


This truck isn't suppose to be full on race, yet not a street slouch. It still has to be able to do a U-turn and hit the occasional pot hole. But I am trying to build it a bit more towards the racing side of things. I know I can't totally have my cake and eat it too.


Thanks for your time on this one.

Alex

 

[coilover]

Alex,
It seems as though you are putting some good thinking into the project instead of just grabbing the welder stinger and making sparks. I bet it will turn out well. If you use boxing plates be sure to cut the ends at a 45 degree angle or cut a Nike like "swoosh" in the ends (like the factory does) to give a transition area between the rigid boxed sections and the regular C channel frame. Never had one crack when done this way. If you come up with a ten point cage it will add tremendous rigidity to the frame but they are a bit of a hassle getting in and out of the cab past the door diagonal. A removable or swing away one for the driver door opening makes life easier. Your speed will be high enough that you may have no choice but to run a cage but super low ET's are hard to come by with a pickup. You are on the right track.

 

[Hi-Po C-10]

Hi Evan -


I think the swoosh / C cut out on the end will be what I do. I really hope I can get this pieced together right.

I've been looking at 4 links for the past few days. I'm not sure if I need one really, but I really don't want to do this twice or three times. Some guys on the other board are going mid 10's with trailing arms.. so here's hoping I can do something close to that.


Here's a pic of the cab after we let the second layer of clear dry on it.


Alex

 

[Rich 5150 69]

Here`s a short list of a known truck today...

1963 Chevy C10 unknown mileage


Motor
1997 LS1 block
Stock Crank
3.905 Diamond pistons
Eagle Rods
Stock LS6 heads with Patriot Gold Springs
Comp XER 223/228 .585/.588 108/108 (for some reason the 223 lobe does not exist any more, was [email protected] - [email protected] - [email protected] with .585 lift)
LS6 intake
Home Ported TB
2 stage N20
30lb SVO's

Exhaust
Edelbrock 1 3/4" stepped to 1 7/8" HVMC headers
3" X-pipe
Warlock mufflers with dual electric cut outs
Dual 2.5" in single 3" out hooker aeromax muffler

Trans
1991/92 4L80E
Stock 4L80E flexplate
Stock verter
Upgraded internal wiring harness on order (required to use with newer style connector on harness)
New PWM solenoid on order
New Manifold Pressure sensor on order (needed with new harness due to temp sensor being integrated)
28? geenie shifter with skull shift knob

Fuel system
16ga fuel cell under rear of bed
-8 split to two -6 lines
Dual Walbro 255's
Dual -6 back in to single -8
Aeromotive A1000 regulator
-6 return line
Speed inc Fuel rails

Rear
8.5" GM Out of a 1967-72 P/U
New posi unit (came in truck already)
3.73 Gears
275/50/15 BFG DR's

Suspension/brakes
Front disks out of a 1967-72 P/U

The idea was a 14 second truck on motor and a 12.50 on the direct port N20 kit.
__________________
------Motor---------------Bottle
60'---1.539---------------1.521
1/8---6.673 @ 103.98----6.301 @ 112.33
1/4---10.54 @ 122.29----10.21 @ 111.81

 

[Lakeroadster]

I posted this on another thread, and thought it might be useful here also.

When boxing a frame I prefer to set the boxing plate into the frame and use a groove and fillet weld. This makes the corner joint stronger and ensures you have an adequate weld.

And also notice in the sketch how the boxing plates have the notch in the end of them? This helps to minimize stress and allows the end of the boxing plate to flex.

Heres a photo of the last frame I built using the boxed and filleted method, and a couple details of the geometry.

 

[Hi-Po C-10]

I want to say that looks a lot like Super 63's build.

Thanks for posting the boxing idea to the board Lakeroadster... maybe it'll help someone else down the road too.

Alex

Here`s a short list of a known truck today...

1963 Chevy C10 unknown mileage


Motor
1997 LS1 block
Stock Crank
3.905 Diamond pistons
Eagle Rods
Stock LS6 heads with Patriot Gold Springs
Comp XER 223/228 .585/.588 108/108 (for some reason the 223 lobe does not exist any more, was [email protected] - [email protected] - [email protected] with .585 lift)
LS6 intake
Home Ported TB
2 stage N20
30lb SVO's

Exhaust
Edelbrock 1 3/4" stepped to 1 7/8" HVMC headers
3" X-pipe
Warlock mufflers with dual electric cut outs
Dual 2.5" in single 3" out hooker aeromax muffler

Trans
1991/92 4L80E
Stock 4L80E flexplate
Stock verter
Upgraded internal wiring harness on order (required to use with newer style connector on harness)
New PWM solenoid on order
New Manifold Pressure sensor on order (needed with new harness due to temp sensor being integrated)
28? geenie shifter with skull shift knob

Fuel system
16ga fuel cell under rear of bed
-8 split to two -6 lines
Dual Walbro 255's
Dual -6 back in to single -8
Aeromotive A1000 regulator
-6 return line
Speed inc Fuel rails

Rear
8.5" GM Out of a 1967-72 P/U
New posi unit (came in truck already)
3.73 Gears
275/50/15 BFG DR's

Suspension/brakes
Front disks out of a 1967-72 P/U

The idea was a 14 second truck on motor and a 12.50 on the direct port N20 kit.
__________________
------Motor---------------Bottle
60'---1.539---------------1.521
1/8---6.673 @ 103.98----6.301 @ 112.33
1/4---10.54 @ 122.29----10.21 @ 111.81