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Adjustment of the ignition of 235 engine

wokri

wokri

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Hello,
I have a question: On the fly wheel on my truck are two signs, a steel ball and a triangle. Which one is the right one to adjust the ignition?
I have use until today the triangle with the result that the engine is running but not good.
Then I have a second question: I filled up the oil until its up to the full mark. The oil pump needs a few turnings of the starter until the oil gauge shows pessure. Could it be the oil is running out of the pump if the pump doen't work?
Wolfgang
 
wokri said:
Hello,
I have a question: On the fly wheel on my truck are two signs, a steel ball and a triangle. Which one is the right one to adjust the ignition?
I have use until today the triangle with the result that the engine is running but not good.
Then I have a second question: I filled up the oil until its up to the full mark. The oil pump needs a few turnings of the starter until the oil gauge shows pessure. Could it be the oil is running out of the pump if the pump doen't work?
Wolfgang
Click to expand...

The steel ball is the right timing mark, and make sure you have ported vacuum to your vacuum advance, when you open the throttle the distributor should turn and advance the ignition. Set your point dwell between 28-32. Set the point dwell first then the timing. dwell changes timing, timing don't change dwell. The oil pump will bleed down when the engine is not running, this is normal. I hope this helps....Big Tim :cool:
 
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Ignition Timing

Actually , it'll run best with 33° dwell .

The pressed in BB is for ignition timing and the engine *must* be idling at or below 600 RPM's when setting the timing .

Cehck to ensure you have no vacuum to the dizzy when it is idling ! this is critial .

If you have a dynamic timing light with the advance dial on the back , let me know and I'll tell you how to get FREE HORSEPOWER out if it :p

This time works on ALL old tech engine with TDC marks but you MUST have the adjustable dynamic timing light ! .
 
@ Nate

Ooh, sounds good Nate. I do the same on the next weekend because my engine is runnig but not perfect.:D ...and i have a dynamic timing light :-)

Volker
 
Engine is running!

Hello,
yesterday late evening a freind of mine and me get the engine running. Not perfectly but the engine runs.
I was a drama! To line the distributor (dis) with oil pump was easier as I thought. The problem at my engine is that the truck hasn't a original radiator it is larger then the original. I can not turn the motor with the winder. The radiator is in front of it.
When we first connect the dis to the oil pump it wasn't deep enough in the hole so that the oil pump wasn't driven by the dis. Okay let's do it again.:mad: This time the engine get oil pressure but we thought that the dis wasn't strong enough fixed. Dis out and look after the clamp the scale. Didn't realized that the vaccum needs to move the dis. Okay, do it again.:mad:
Third time connecting the dis with the oil pump. Horror, no oil pressure!:mad::mad: Oil pump was lined to the dis. Everything must be okay!!!!
What is the mistake??? Okay lets think about!:D
I find out that the engine needs a kick after starting to push oil pressure. If the engine is running on idle after starting the will no oil pressure build. After kicking the engine the motor has oil pressure in idle.:confused:
Is this normal?????:confused:
I let you know if the engine will run prefectly.
Wolfgang
 
YAY Wolfgang !

That's how it is done :D you just take your time and re-do it until it's " just so " .

Remember : once you have it running reliably , you'll need to go over the entire tune up thing again , in the correct order else it won't work .

Look up " tune up " in my older posts as these engine will run smooth as silk , even when totally worn out , if they're properly tuned due to good design .
 
Contructor of this thing?

Hi Nate,
be honest, that contructor of this system was a fool or a fan of gambling. On my old VW Beetle and my old Volvo there are only two ways to conect the distributor, the first one is the right on and the second is the wrong one. To install the distributor on this engine is very nervous! I've never need so much experiments and had so often the feeling I've done it wrong and distroy something! I hope I'd never have to change this parts. You needed two people to fix this system, not good!:mad:
Wolfgang
 
Design Factors

Well Wokri ;

Having been a Field Mechanic for a long time , I have to disagree here ~ this engine is the very best of 1940's Technology .

As I said before , once you've struggled through it a few times , it's simple as pie .

I'll be nice and not detail the numerous glaring faults and engineering Boo-Boos made on my beloved German cars over the years . no one is perfect .

I love my old Mercedes as much as I love my old Chevrolet but I'm not blind to it's faults .
 
@ Nate

Hello Nate and Wokri,

i tuned up my ingnition with help of this thread. Now i have an ignition point 28° before dead point and the power is wonderful but the engine runs very rough. What happens with the ignition point on 15°?? smoother and not so strong??
 
vwnate1 said:
Well Wokri ;

Having been a Field Mechanic for a long time , I have to disagree here ~ this engine is the very best of 1940's Technology .

As I said before , once you've struggled through it a few times , it's simple as pie .

I'll be nice and not detail the numerous glaring faults and engineering Boo-Boos made on my beloved German cars over the years . no one is perfect .

I love my old Mercedes as much as I love my old Chevrolet but I'm not blind to it's faults .
Click to expand...
Ach du lieber,

I seem to recall a vehicle from East Germany....Trouble..no, no TRABI. Now that was an engineering marvel. Not to mention the styling. I'll post a picture if I can find one. I don't think even the Russian's took those back.

Flashlight
 
Trabis

Flashlight said:
Ach du lieber,

I seem to recall a vehicle from East Germany....Trouble..no, no TRABI. Now that was an engineering marvel. Not to mention the styling. I'll post a picture if I can find one. I don't think even the Russian's took those back.

Flashlight
Click to expand...

Ah, the Trabi. The best fiberglass (plastic?) body and two cycle engine that money could buy.:D After the wall came down it was a circus on the West German autobahns. The Trabis going 50 MPH and the BMWs going 100. The guards at the border crossings were issued gas masks because of all the Trabis passing through. They tended to travel in packs so that when one broke down the others could help.
 
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Ignition Timing

Volker said:
Hello Nate and Wokri,

i tuned up my ingnition with help of this thread. Now i have an ignition point 28° before dead point and the power is wonderful but the engine runs very rough. What happens with the ignition point on 15°?? smoother and not so strong??
Click to expand...

O.K.,here'sthe deal :

The BB is about 10° BTDC IIRC (I'm tired don't flame me please)
, the _chevron_ or _triangle_ is TDC (OT for our German friends) and can be used to set 28° ~ 32° BTDC if you have the adjustable timing light , when the engine is held running @ 3,000 RPM's ~ set the light's dial to 28° ~ 32° then shine it at the timing window and move the distributor until the Chevron/Triangle stamping is *perfectly* lined up with the pointer . tighten the dist. clamp and re-check as it likes to drift as you're struggling with it , if it's O.K. , go for a nice test drive , it will now be as smooth as silk and make way more power too .

The BB may or may not line up @ idle now but that's not important in any case .

Do a Throttle Ping Test and back off the advance if needed , one degree at a time until you get no ping when you stamp the throttle to the floor @ 35 MPH in top gear , engine fully warmed up .

I hope this helps , it's the factory recommended way to do it .
 
Details

O-Kay ! :

" BB " refers to the timing mark in the flywheel , it is a steel Ball Bearing pressed into the flywheel .

BTDC means : Before Top Dead Center (OT) .

ATDC (not used in old tech much) means : After Top Dead Center .

I hope this helps . if not ask again and I'll try to phrase it differently but if you print out my instructions and take under the hood as a " cheat Sheet " all
should be clear .

Remember : rough running engine is rarely a timing issue unless it's waaaayyyyyyyy too far advanced .

Always use the first cylinder for the timing light connection , this is # 1 .
 
Oil pump is bleeding

Hi Nate,
I've bought a new high pressure oil pump. If I started my 235 cui engine and I saw the following process. If the engine is standing a few day, it lost it oil pressure. If I start the engine the oil pressure is in the idle by zero. So I have to kick down the accelerator and as now the oil pressure is coming and the engine gets now oil pressure in the idle.
What can be wrong?
Ask
Wolfgang
 
@Nate

OK, will try to understand what you mean:
I have to adjust 28°-33° with 3000 RPM? and what happens with 600 RPM? My mechanic looked to me very critical because he knews the adjustment only with idling.

rough is relativ but runs like silk is far away at the moment: i felt more power with 28° BTDC as my first adjustment with 10°ATDC.

And the next thing if i go with the pedal to the metal i can hear the pings from my valves, i think so. Therefore i thought my ignition point is to late or could it be thats the carby adjustment is not exact? I tooked my old carb from the 216 with intake/exhaust and put it on the 235 and gave him more mixture. Is it possible or have to use a new carby?
 
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Oil Pressure

wokri said:
Hi Nate,
I've bought a new high pressure oil pump. If I started my 235 cui engine and I saw the following process. If the engine is standing a few day, it lost it oil pressure. If I start the engine the oil pressure is in the idle by zero. So I have to kick down the accelerator and as now the oil pressure is coming and the engine gets now oil pressure in the idle.
What can be wrong?
Ask
Wolfgang
Click to expand...

I see nothing wrong here Volker ~ these are *very* low pressure , high volume oiling engines ~ that's why they're so sturdy : they can have wildly varying oil pressure and still work hard .

As long as the oil pressure gauge comes up off the peg any time you leave idle / tickover speeds (1,000 MAX.) you're good to go ~ some will have 60 # going down the road , others will only have 15 # @ full tilt boogie and nothing is wrong .

New Melling oil pumps are nororiously bad quality , this is just one more reason I tell folks to make it run before ripping into it ~ if your old , smoking , knocking and piston slapping engine made over 10 # oil pressure at any RPM , the old pump is FINE ! don't take it apart , just clean it up and repair any rips in the intake screen and re-use it .

To test : engine hot and idling , remove the oil filler cap and peer in at the rocker , there's a little hole in the dead center of it ~ rev. the engine to slighty over 1,000 RPM's & wait a minute ~ oil should begin to dribble (not spray) out this hole if all is well .

O.K. ? . did I make any sense this time ? (hope springs eternal)
 
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