In final steps of rewiring and .....

[Haasman]

we have a ‘51 3100 Chevy that we are rewiring and everything works well except some oddities with the front turn signals, wondering if anything occurs to you about these issues?

We have LEDs on all four corners. They all work and flash with the hazards. We are using a 900 SignalStat turn signal. We are using are Trucklite 263 flasher.

Our problem with left turn signal, both left front and rear flash. But the left front is bit dim.
Right turn signal, both front and rear right flash, but also the left front with equal intensity

With headlight switch off, left turn signal flashes, but in front is weak. Right turn signal flashes properly.

When parking lights are on with left turn signal works in the back, but no left turn signal in the front. Right turn signal nothing. No flashing front or back.

The rear turn signals have always worked correctly.

We were wondering if we have a bad turn signal flasher relay or even a bad turn signal switch?

We've checked grounds all around. Really good idea to triple check lol.

 

[Bill Hanlon]

It's not the flasher. The circuitry around the flasher doesn't know if it is driving the left or right turn signal.

Do you have a plug for the Signal Stat 900 or is it hardwired in?

 

[Haasman]

Bill, it is hardwired.

We've discovered that -

• we do have turn signals L & R when the head light switch is off or in head lights on position.
• we do not have front L & R turn signals when park lights are on.

 

[Bill Hanlon]

I realize that there would have to be two more wires involved, front left turn signal and front right turn signal, but is the front light harness still in use? If so, I could walk you through some troubleshooting from there. We could get on the phone and between the two of us I'll bet we could figure it out. Check your PMs for my phone number. We have visitors this weekend, but I'm fairly free before and after.

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• Bill Hanlon
• Oct 25, 2023

 

[Haasman]

Thank you Bill. Got your number. What time zone are you in?

Yes the front turn signals do have separate park light and turn signal wires.

What we are trying to figure out is why when the park lights are on, the turn signals won't work? (They do when the park lights are off, whether during head lights on or switched off completely)

 

[Bill Hanlon]

Central time.

I know they would have to have separate park and turn wires. My question is "are the terminal strips on each inner fender still in use?" Second question is can you get to the turn signal wires to measure voltage near the terminal strips?

 

[Haasman]

The terminal strips are being used and are very accessible.

We measured 12.3v at both parking light wires.
The turn signal wires varied of course with the intermittent of the flashing. It seems to go from a low of o.12v to steps of 4.4v, 10.xv to 12.2v. We were thinking this is because of the flasher of course, but weren't sure of the voltage steps. We appreciate your interest.

 

[Bill Hanlon]

Sounds like the turn signal wires are very accessible. Do you have access to Microsoft XL or some other spreadsheet program that will read and print a .XLSX file? I've made a little chart I'd like you to fill out if we can't be on the phone together while you are doing the tests. If we are on the phone while testing I can do that from my end.

What I am suggesting is to run a temporary test wire (14 gauge is big enough) from battery + (or maybe where the battery cable hooks to the starter) long enough to reach all the terminals for the front lights. If you have a helper just strip 1/4" of the insulation on the other end of the wire. If not, attach a spade terminal to the other end of the wire. Be REAL CAREFUL with that end of the wire. Letting it touch ground will result in sparks and maybe a lot worse.

Get your voltmeter out and hook the negative lead to a good ground. Leave the ignition switch off, the headlight switch pushed all the way in, the turn signal switch off and the 4-way flasher switch off.

Then connect your test wire to one terminal at a time while observing and recording the voltage on each terminal and light quality on each lamp. If I'm on the phone while you are doing this I'll record the results.

 

[Haasman]

Yes, we do use spreadsheets.

The idea being to list each of the voltages for each wire going to the 4 wires, on each side? Two for the headlights, 2 for the park/turn combo?
We can list this and communicate them to you.

 

[Bill Hanlon]

PM me an email address and I'll send the spreadsheet.

There SHOULD be 1 for the park and 2 for the front turn.

 

[Haasman]

email sent, yes 1 for the shared park, 2 for each of the left n right.

Curious, what voltages would you expect?

 

[Bill Hanlon]

With Kate's (Jeff's wife) help we got his problem straightened out. Wires were swapped at the left side socket. We also came up with a simple circuit to turn on the parking lights when the headlights are on.

Kate and Jeff were a joy to work with on the phone.

 

[Bill Hanlon]

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooops!

Kate and Jeff called back this afternoon and the problem, or one a lot like it, is back after they tried switching to LED bulbs. Did some more troubleshooting and at one point I asked them to change the left front bulb back to the 1157 we were using last night. When Jeff touched the LED the right side bulb started operating as it should. More shaking of the left side bulb resulted in the right side bulb switching from working properly to not and back again. Jeff pulled the bulb and found this:

I wonder what the right side socket looks like.

 

[Haasman]

Both left and right park/turn signal sockets had the same problem: the 1157 bulb contacts float in their base. Frankly amazed to find this, really speaks to poor part quality. We had spent quite a bit of time (many, many hours) trying to figure out what was wrong with the front park/turn signals. We reversed wiring connections, traced many times from switches to these fixtures.

We are very grateful that Bill help guide us through problem determination steps. Remarkably it was when I was removing the left front connection that as Bill described, the light changed from dim to bright repeatedly. Those contact were loose and could touch the bulb socket housing or even rotate to touch each other.

We are using super glue to hold these contacts in place. Solution confirmation to follow shortly.

 

[Bill Hanlon]

Jeff, I don't think gluing the contacts is a good idea. They are supposed to be spring loaded in a way that allows the contacts to move a little bit deeper and shallower in the base of the socket. When you put the bulb in you have to press it in, turn it to lock the pins in place and the when you let it go the springs under the contacts push it back out just a little bit to hold it in place. If the contacts are glued this action won't happen.

 

[Brad G]

I had the same problem with my 1157 sockets. I kept blowing a fuse. I thought that I might pull the brass connector out and solder on it to make it fit in the fiber plate better. That way it cannot move from the bulb twisting it out of place. Or replace them with a better connector more like a small rivet soldered in place of the cheap brass one. They would fit in the disc and still have the spring movement that they need.

 

[Haasman]

Yes totally understand the flexibility of the two contacts.

We decided to go the permanent way- we took the bad sockets out and directly wired the lights. Works great. Great feeling knowing the lights are good, and solid.

Thanks for all the help! Crazy, it was the fricken bulb holders the whole time! Wow.

 

[Haasman]

.. and to have Bill Hanlon generously walk two newbie through wiring challenges was great. Thank you Bill.

 

[Bill Hanlon]

You and Kate are both welcome.

Did you get a chance to look at the diode solution for your parking light project?

 

[Haasman]

I did. Thank you for that. I also came across this method: jumper wire from tail light to park light terminals on the head light switch. How's this look to you?