A very well know custom rod builder dropped by the shop today and in the course of our discussion I asked him how often he used a 350 sbc engine. He said never. We had not used one for several years so I was curious if it is a trend or we were the exception. Not knocking the 350 as it has to be one of the all time great engines but the LS series engines will make 400hp in a heart beat AND get 25mpg. The nerds with the computers and sensors everywhere have won the game.
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R.i.p. 350
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Zig
Member
Only if you're a nerd with sensors...
52wasp
Member
computer nerds...
If it weren't for them, we'd be relegated to leafing thru the pages of Hemmings Motor News in the "Parts" section... and I would never have even heard of a guy who calls himself "coilover" from Texas... or a "Zig" from Kansas.
I guess the "LS series" followed the footsteps of its original predecessor, the SBC, which enjoyed over a half-century of service (lets try to forget the Gen II "LT1" motors from the early nineties, which thankfully never found themselves beneath truck-hoods).
GM has already mothballed the LS (officially called Gen III and Gen IV) after a mere 16 years, with the Gen V Direct-Injected, Active Fuel Managed, Variable Valve Timed, all-aluminum replacement. You want to talk about computers and sensors? I am surprised my '14 GMC even has a gas pedal! There is a LOT going on.
Interesting to think I never once considered an SBC for Penny. She was destined for an LS (and a very specific one at that) once I decided to "deviate from stock".
If it weren't for them, we'd be relegated to leafing thru the pages of Hemmings Motor News in the "Parts" section... and I would never have even heard of a guy who calls himself "coilover" from Texas... or a "Zig" from Kansas.
I guess the "LS series" followed the footsteps of its original predecessor, the SBC, which enjoyed over a half-century of service (lets try to forget the Gen II "LT1" motors from the early nineties, which thankfully never found themselves beneath truck-hoods).
GM has already mothballed the LS (officially called Gen III and Gen IV) after a mere 16 years, with the Gen V Direct-Injected, Active Fuel Managed, Variable Valve Timed, all-aluminum replacement. You want to talk about computers and sensors? I am surprised my '14 GMC even has a gas pedal! There is a LOT going on.
Interesting to think I never once considered an SBC for Penny. She was destined for an LS (and a very specific one at that) once I decided to "deviate from stock".
Lakeroadster
Member
Blasphamy....
Here we are 60 years after it was first introduced, and the Gen I still provides the most power for your dollar. Until swapping in a LS motor is less expensive than swapping in a Gen I SBC it won't happen.
Celebrate it's birthday 'cause it sure ain't ready to push up daisies.
John
Here we are 60 years after it was first introduced, and the Gen I still provides the most power for your dollar. Until swapping in a LS motor is less expensive than swapping in a Gen I SBC it won't happen.
Celebrate it's birthday 'cause it sure ain't ready to push up daisies.
John
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50 Chevy LS3
Member
I hope this doesn't mean I'm a nerd...
That is the reason the junkyards think their pullout engines are worth a small fortune. I was offered a 6.0 ly6 engine from a '07 Silverado w/less than 50,000 miles for $2700. The LS3, L92, and L99s seem to run $3800-$7000 OUT OF A WRECK! I still have 2, 350 four bolt engines in the shop.
All of this modern engine weirdness was brought on by emissions standards and then $4+ gasoline.
The thing is, you can still strip fuel injection off, if you want and slap a carb. on it.
Part of me wishes we could turn all the computers off and go back to the good ol' days, but you can never turn back time.
That is the reason the junkyards think their pullout engines are worth a small fortune. I was offered a 6.0 ly6 engine from a '07 Silverado w/less than 50,000 miles for $2700. The LS3, L92, and L99s seem to run $3800-$7000 OUT OF A WRECK! I still have 2, 350 four bolt engines in the shop.
All of this modern engine weirdness was brought on by emissions standards and then $4+ gasoline.
The thing is, you can still strip fuel injection off, if you want and slap a carb. on it.
Part of me wishes we could turn all the computers off and go back to the good ol' days, but you can never turn back time.
52wasp
Member
slap a carb on...
and there are an ever-expanding number of companies offering products to make your Gen 3 or 4 work without EFI.
How a GM engine will run with a F**D distributor escapes me.
and there are an ever-expanding number of companies offering products to make your Gen 3 or 4 work without EFI.
How a GM engine will run with a F**D distributor escapes me.
This is just my opinion but the SBC will live forever in my world. I don't understand the hype of a computerized motor in one of our trucks it just doesn't look right. there is nothing better than looking under the hood and seeing a motor with a few wires and hoses and a carburetor. It looks very clean. It might just be me but I for one like to be able to get under the hood and listen to the motor to figure out what's wrong instead or having a computer tell what it is. I am not a computer nerd or geek and there will never be a computerized motor in my truck or any other hot rod I build.
Small Block Chevy V-8's
I cannot imagine it's demise just yet , as much as I love and prefer older InLine 6 Bangers , these really are study , efficient well built engines , hard to beat at any price break .
FWIW , I see Fuel Injected Corvettes with the engines in them , not wrecked , no one wants them these days , 4 valve heads and all ~ I have to think ny 4 valve SBC V-8 engine would make a fun , romping stomping project .
They're still under $500 fan to flywheel in any self service junkyard in Cali. and there's SCADS of them ! they send almost 1/2 to scrap for lack of want .
I still find the occasional 283 and even a 265 here and there , as mentioned : were I to ever snuff my candle and go V-ate , I'd prolly build a low compression one with big valves so I could run the living crap out of it and not have to worry about breakage .
Alloy engines ? PFffttttt .
I cannot imagine it's demise just yet , as much as I love and prefer older InLine 6 Bangers , these really are study , efficient well built engines , hard to beat at any price break .
FWIW , I see Fuel Injected Corvettes with the engines in them , not wrecked , no one wants them these days , 4 valve heads and all ~ I have to think ny 4 valve SBC V-8 engine would make a fun , romping stomping project .
They're still under $500 fan to flywheel in any self service junkyard in Cali. and there's SCADS of them ! they send almost 1/2 to scrap for lack of want .
I still find the occasional 283 and even a 265 here and there , as mentioned : were I to ever snuff my candle and go V-ate , I'd prolly build a low compression one with big valves so I could run the living crap out of it and not have to worry about breakage .
Alloy engines ? PFffttttt .
50 Chevy LS3
Member
Beautiful engines...
It's all good, but, if you really want a THRILL RIDE, and good street manners, and relatively decent MPG, Ya gotta at least consider modern LS power.
They are all pretty, but,
http://youtu.be/4L5bpwzl8vs
You just have to LOVE that sound!!!
It's all good, but, if you really want a THRILL RIDE, and good street manners, and relatively decent MPG, Ya gotta at least consider modern LS power.
They are all pretty, but,
http://youtu.be/4L5bpwzl8vs
You just have to LOVE that sound!!!
sleepindawg
Member
I don't know, I suppose I'm just a simple type of person. I like the thought of building once and driving forever. Regular maintenance means a quiet afternoon spent with my girl (read that as truck) getting grease under my fingernails. The simpler the better!
If I have to pay someone else to fix it then that's a part I don't feel that I've "done" myself.
I will not ever trade my wrench for a computer nor will I ever trade my long life simple engines for computerized fire breathing engines in any of my ol'girls!
There again, this is just my opinion.
Tim
If I have to pay someone else to fix it then that's a part I don't feel that I've "done" myself.
I will not ever trade my wrench for a computer nor will I ever trade my long life simple engines for computerized fire breathing engines in any of my ol'girls!
There again, this is just my opinion.
Tim
52wasp
Member
grease under the fingernails...
Is not as common as is once was. Modern stuff doesn't leak like the old stuff did. And as far as "long life" goes, the LS series was designed for a service life of 400,000 miles. I purchased a disassembled L33 aluminum block engine (Gen 3, 2005-2007, 1/2 ton trucks) a few years back. 210,000 on the clock. Visible crosshatching in the cylinders. Bearings were PERFECT. Hard to argue with plugs/wires/belt/coolant at 100,000 miles for a tune up.
Imagine the "sacrilege" when a "perfectly good 235" was yanked to be replaced by a 283, or more likely a 327 (we weren't graced with the ubiquitous 350 until 1967). Same thing, different era.
Is not as common as is once was. Modern stuff doesn't leak like the old stuff did. And as far as "long life" goes, the LS series was designed for a service life of 400,000 miles. I purchased a disassembled L33 aluminum block engine (Gen 3, 2005-2007, 1/2 ton trucks) a few years back. 210,000 on the clock. Visible crosshatching in the cylinders. Bearings were PERFECT. Hard to argue with plugs/wires/belt/coolant at 100,000 miles for a tune up.
Imagine the "sacrilege" when a "perfectly good 235" was yanked to be replaced by a 283, or more likely a 327 (we weren't graced with the ubiquitous 350 until 1967). Same thing, different era.
50 Chevy LS3
Member
come on, take that first step, I know you can do it...
At some point, man went from looking up at the sky to actually flying. Some said "You will never get me in one of those things", speaking of airplanes. Then, man went from simple recip. engines with props to complex recip. engines with constant speed props. Then, man went to turbo props and jet engines. Still, today, some say "you will never get me into one of those things".
I can't imagine were we would be without airplanes.
My point is, do not be afraid of technology. Do not be intimidated by it. I would urge everybody to read and learn all they can, never stop learning.
I'm not a "know it all", just a high school educated blue collar guy, but I love to read and listen to others who can teach about new things.
I also like history and love a perfectly restored car, truck, airplane, etc.
And that is one reason I like this forum. We have everyone here, restoration people, resto-mod people, and full-out hot-rodders.
Like I said, it's all good.
At some point, man went from looking up at the sky to actually flying. Some said "You will never get me in one of those things", speaking of airplanes. Then, man went from simple recip. engines with props to complex recip. engines with constant speed props. Then, man went to turbo props and jet engines. Still, today, some say "you will never get me into one of those things".
I can't imagine were we would be without airplanes.
My point is, do not be afraid of technology. Do not be intimidated by it. I would urge everybody to read and learn all they can, never stop learning.
I'm not a "know it all", just a high school educated blue collar guy, but I love to read and listen to others who can teach about new things.
I also like history and love a perfectly restored car, truck, airplane, etc.
And that is one reason I like this forum. We have everyone here, restoration people, resto-mod people, and full-out hot-rodders.
Like I said, it's all good.
Zig
Member
And then you got ones like me~ Broke and full of dreams.
Playing the "if I could" card, I would find one of those 283 V8s and do with it what would be best.
Playing the "if I could" card, I would find one of those 283 V8s and do with it what would be best.
I didn't mean to open a can of worms with my comment about the ls series motors don't get me wrong we have a Tahoe with one in it and that is fine in a new rig but what I'm saying for my taste AD trucks look so much better with an in line 6 a SBC or a non computer v8 I don't want a motor that has to be taken somewhere and put on a computer to find out what is wrong with it. Where I live we do not have to get our cars inspected or have any emissions tests as long as it appears to have mufflers and a windshield we are good to go. So i will continue to hoard all the sbc's I can. I one thing I will say to all the LS fans out there is just remember if we ever get knocked into the stone age all us guys running our dinosaurs we still be cruising down the road while you LS guy are trying to figure out hot to make them run.
I didn't mean to open a can of worms with my comment about the ls series motors don't get me wrong we have a Tahoe with one in it and that is fine in a new rig but what I'm saying for my taste AD trucks look so much better with an in line 6 a SBC or a non computer v8 I don't want a motor that has to be taken somewhere and put on a computer to find out what is wrong with it. Where I live we do not have to get our cars inspected or have any emissions tests as long as it appears to have mufflers and a windshield we are good to go. So i will continue to hoard all the sbc's I can. I one thing I will say to all the LS fans out there is just remember if we ever get knocked into the stone age all us guys running our dinosaurs we still be cruising down the road while you LS guy are trying to figure out hot to make them run.
Mike, the accelerator pedal on your 014 GMC is just one small step above a pacifier AND brings back nightmares. We had a 57 Chevy and a 70 442 with LS engines in the shop at the same time and got the accelerator pedals mixed up. Neither engine would fire a lick even though the pedal circuitry tested good. It was because the pedal and computer were not matched. I don't recall this problem when there was a rod or cable instead of wires but it's still nice to turn the key in any weather for instant start, white smoke the tires if desired, drive 70mph at 25mpg, let idle for an hour with the a/c on and never raise the temp one degree, plan on at least 100,000 miles between tune ups (my Ranger got it's first one at 295k), and yes I agree they are one of the BUTT UGLIEST engines ever built. That is why I have a Mercury Marauder DOHC engine in my 34 Chevy as it has many of the pluses of the LS and is PRETTY.
Kens 50 PU
Member
Bill Hanlon
Member
Must be an old picture. It was rainy and cold in Houston today. No way Ken would have taken his Queen out of the garage.
50 Chevy LS3
Member
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...
at least IMO.
Well, they don't have to be ugly...
at least IMO.
52wasp
Member
The one with the "Iron Lung" got me all tingly....
Evan, While the LS may take a trophy for Least Attractive, I have ZERO plans of driving Penny hood-less. So all the GOOD (310hp/340tq, 20+mpg, sub-14 sec 1/4 mile et's, widely spaced service intervals) will be in use, and as long as I don't open the hood, nobody will see the BAD.
Evan, While the LS may take a trophy for Least Attractive, I have ZERO plans of driving Penny hood-less. So all the GOOD (310hp/340tq, 20+mpg, sub-14 sec 1/4 mile et's, widely spaced service intervals) will be in use, and as long as I don't open the hood, nobody will see the BAD.