Decided that it was time to treat my 12 volt, negative ground, but otherwise mostly stock, 228 inch '52 GMC engine to a better ignition system. While the Pertronix system is simple to install (and ultimately less expensive) I have always been a fan of GM's HEI ignition. Especially when you need to get a replacement module 20 miles outside of Podunk TX. When DeadZoneTrucker brought Deve's solution to my attention, I decided to look into doing it Deve's way. Before I started I spent some time on the phone with Deve talking about mounting alternatives for the module, as I didn't want to use his mounting bracket. Nice guy, willing to help. Here is a pointer to his kit: High Energy Ignition Using Your Stock Distributor! I hooked up an old ignition scope that a friend gave me years ago. It showed that I had a total of about 6 degrees of timing jitter using my stock points distributor. My first thought was to mount the HEI module inside the cab, but I was concerned with the 3-4 feet long leads from the mag pickup. The mag pickup voltage levels are very low and could be susceptible to electrical noise, especially over such long wires. My solution was to use shielded, 22 gauge, twisted pair wire from the pickup to the module. Bilbo came by one day a couple of weeks ago and we went to work. The plan was to do a temporary installation with longer than necessary wires to assure that there wouldn't be problems with the final installation. We installed the HEI module on the passenger's side inner fender under the hood. We used 10' of the twisted pair wire for the pickup to HEI module, figuring that if that long wire worked OK, the final solution of 3-4 feet would work as well. We also shielded the 14 gauge wire we ran between the coil negative and the module to keep it from generating electrical noise into the mag pickup wire. Both shields were grounded at the HEI's ground point. Bilbo (an electrician by trade) pointed out that the shields should only be grounded at one end. My GMC distributor was the "short cap" variety which does not have enough room inside to mount the mag pickup. Deve provided a "tall cap" distributor for an additional $30. It arrived freshly cleaned, painted and lubed and seemed to be in very good condition. Later testing with the HEI module showed the timing jitter of this distributor to be around 2.5 degrees total. I have around 6000 miles (2 years) on my current set of plug wires, so I decided keep them. Same with the AC R45 spark plugs (nice light tan color on the inside insulators), so I just re-gapped them from the stock 0.032" to 0.045" and put them back in. Cranked up the engine, timed it to the BB, and then advanced it about 1/2 way to the "A" mark on the "octane selector" on the distributor. This engine started quickly using the stock ignition and so far it still does on the HEI. Drove the truck for a week and a half using the temporary HEI mounting with the long wires and all seemed well. Mileage on the only tank of gas was 15.37 MPG, mostly suburban driving, which is slightly better than my usual 14.5 to 15 MPG, but hardly a good comparison with just one tankful used. Up to this point I'd pretty much followed Deve's instructions with the exception of longer, shielded wires. In the mean time, I'd gone back and re-read his article. One thing I noticed was his comment about hiding the module inside an old voltage regulator cover. I decided to hide my module inside a voltage regulator, mounted in the stock location on the firewall. While I was at it, I'd disguise the wiring as best I could to make it look stock. I started by removing all parts from the frame of the voltage regulator. Then I re-attached all three connection points to the frame using pop rivets. The connection points (BAT, FLD and ARM) would be used later for ground points for wire shields. Then I used a drill and a Dremel tool to hog out some material from the bottom of the heat sink that Deve had supplied so the heat sink would sit flat on the regulator frame without interference from the rivets. The next problem was that the module was just a little too big to fit inside the regulator cover. It would fit fine if the wire attachment tabs pointed up instead of out, so the tabs needed bending. I was afraid I might break something if I just tried bending them with no support, so I made this tool. It is a piece of 1/8" steel with a slot cut in it using a hack saw. The slot was just wide enough to slide one of the tabs from the HEI module into. I used a Dremel tool to chamfer the slot out so the bend wouldn't be so abrupt. Here is the tool being used. Here is the module mounted inside the regulator with all wires connected. The BAT lug holds a shield with the actual +12 v lead (also connect to coil +) inside the shield and sneaking under the lug, up inside the regulator case to the "B" connection on the HEI module (large yellow wire). The ARM lug holds a shield for the black wire connected between HEI "C" connection and coil -. The FLD lug holds the shield for the twisted pair wires, small yellow to module W and yellow with blue stripe to G that come from the mag pickup in the distributor. All these wires are covered in black heat shrink tubing, making them look more or less like stock wiring and run up underneath the tabs so they are not obvious. Shielding the coil+ and coil- wires may be overkill, but it works for me. The end result:
Now I know why Deve is searching for used Delco Remy regulator covers..... Bad Voltage Regulators wanted | Truck Parts Wanted | The Stovebolt Forums
Did you have to change out your coil? (I have yet to reread this enough to find that out...) Man, the pictures of the install on Deve's site are de-tailed!!! I wonder what the shelf life is on a Pertronix module. After several thousand miles, start keeping one in the glove box if you're going on a long journey?
VERY well done ! . RE : Pertronix ' Ignitor ' life : I have several that are well over 20 years of daily driving and never had one fail yet . The only reason some fail is due to wrong coil or bad grounding , reversing the polarity etc. .
I upgraded my '51 3600 with a rebuilt '58 261 (now a 270) and Fenton duals. I'm a fortunate Kansas resident who lives a bit over a half hour from Deve, so I drove over to have him do his HEI install. Hard to describe the difference it can make, but if you want your truck to start almost instantly, and idle quietly, and run smoothly, you just need to figure a way to get this on your engine. I'm not affiliated with Deve, just a fan who enjoys the benefits of all the time he spends meticulously figuring things out until they are perfected. He's a credit to our AD family.
Hi Bill I read your very good thread after my later talk with Deve which consern around the same issue ! I think the facts about the mileage and starting benefits are good to know ! I still have a question to ask ? I have a new coil , the Pertronix Flametrower coil (oil filled ) at 3 ohm that gives up to 40.000 volts ! Would that be efficient anough to do the same job as your MSD coil together with Deves HEI electronic module ? 40,000 Volt Canister Coils Martinius. Thanks for sharing
Sorry Martinus, but I just used the one that Deve recommended. I'm guessing the 3 ohm Pertronix coil has an internal resistor (their web site says it does), which would reduce current flow in the primary side of the coil, reducing current and voltage on the secondary side of the coil.
Yeah, NOT a good replacement. The stock coil without the Ballast Resistor built in is 1.5 ohms and that is too much. The MSD 8202 is really the best fit. It balances the problem of causing too much current overwhelming the module and too little current causing the entire system to be sluggish. The MSD8202 is .7 ohms (primary). This has to do with the 3.5ms ramp and fire technology that was the main breakthrough of the HEI system. What that means is, a stock system only has TIME for about 12,000 volts to develop on the coil before each spark plug fires. An HEI system can develop the entire 45.000 volts because it has time to do so. Read the Hemmings Article on my web site. It will be clear as mud. I would question anyone who touts a 45kv coil at 3 ohms. Sure given time it can generate 45kv, but the time for a stock or pertronix system with 3 ohm coil would still be 12kv. Mathematically given a 3500rpm engine max, it just doesn't compute.
Thanks Bill and Deve for the facts about the coil usage . Interesting reading . I am not that updated in electronically facts so its good to learn new topics to keep the little grey cells working ! Read your Hemmings article to Deve about " how to choose the best coil option" combined with the HEI system ? Thanks for sharing Martinius.
Since when HEI came out, it came out with the module built in to the Distributor, and the coil totally redesigned in shape (square), we have to rely on the performance industry to give us what we want.. a can style coil that looks original, yet designed for HEI systems. So, to determine what we need, we look at the square OEM type coils. In looking over the specs for each, turns out MSD made a really suitable one in the MSD-8202. You want a low ohm value, but not too low. A .7 ohm (.6 is okay too) is the sweet spot. They make .3 ohm coils but the problem there is all of that excess current is developing heat that is shunted by the heat sink at the module and does not improve performance anyway. HEI is not cheap because you are not done when you get the HEI kit, you really should look into decent spark plugs, I recommend the E3.52 for our application. They are not gappable and gapped at .040 but perform amazingly better during my own testing. Then there is Spark Plug Wires. They make nice performance wires now that have less than 1 ohm per foot and come with the stock boots for non HEI Distributors. Accel makes a 4040K set that performs really well. Then of course the MSD 8202 coil. You can get a few bucks in this upgrade, but I have made many of them for people and so far everyone is very happy. The plugs, plug wires and coil ARE optional however. You can run your HEI without those upgrades, using stock parts, but performance would be about par with a stock system and it is hard on the system since the system is not properly balanced electrically.
Deve I already bought the E3 plugs but not the coil and plug wires. Do these plug wires have a specific parts name or number. What do i have to look for when ordering them ? Martinius.
Plug wires can be a problem for most people because you get them in a kit. The Distributor ends are not on them and you cut them to length. The problem is it requires a special crimping tool and cutter that keeps the center conductor cleanly intact. Accel 4040K is the part number at Summit Racing. You can get them in other colors if you choose. The "K" means Black. The crimping tool is also the cutter.
