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Lakeroadsters' Build Thread: '65 SWB Step

Brake Up Grades

Just a though for those who never stop tinkering :

If you install dual circuit brakes , plumb it up so one circuit runs diagonal wheels , this way if it ever fails you'll have vastly better brking .

This is required by law on all School Busses in the U.S.A. and Volvo cars do it too .

Drum brakes are fine everywhere but the race track and hauling max. capacity .
 
Interesting post Nate. I never thought about the diagonal concept? Any chance of having side to side pulling issues due to dual master cylinder efficiency issues?

And in regards to drum brakes I agree. I spent the formative years of my teens driving a '70 Nova with 4 wheel drum brakes. I put over 130,000 miles on it and if you stood on the brakes they would lock up all four tires. Then while in my 20's I restored a '72 Nova that had the same 4 drum set-up. I never once found myself wanting better braking. While it is true that drums fade away quicker than discs, like you said, unless your are racing or are hauling heavy loads with a lot of braking the drums are just fine.

Like me, my truck is in its semi-retirement phase of life. It's not old, just older. And some times good is good enough :D
 
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Lakeroadster said:
Interesting post Nate. I never thought about the diagonal concept? Any chance of having side to side pulling issues due to dual master cylinder efficiency issues?

And in regards to drum brakes I agree. I spent the formative years of my teens driving a '70 Nova with 4 wheel drum brakes. I put over 130,000 miles on it and if you stood on the brakes they would lock up all four tires. Then while in my 20's I restored a '72 Nova that had the same 4 drum set-up. I never once found myself wanting better braking. While it is true that drums fade away quicker than discs, like you said, unless your are racing or are hauling heavy loads with a lot of braking the drums are just fine.

Like me, my truck is in its semi-retirement phase of life. It's not old, just older. And some times good is good enough :D
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I agree with both of you guys, mine have serviced this truck up til this point as drums, I see no reason to change them now....and there has been two panic stops that worked out fine... but this time around I will need to replace drums as they are about being to far out....
 
Brakes

Back when I were a laddie ;

Heavy Haulers did a thing called " fanning " thier brakes when descending hills loaded with drum brakes , this is releasing the brakes periodically instead of standing on the pedal as shoe to drum contact constantly prevents the drums from cooling off .

No , there's no side pull with diagonal brakes unless there's other issues .

Most folks have no idea about brakes , they just want whatever is " hip " .

Disc brakes are fine but few ever need them ~ I don't own any modern cars and I drive the living crap out of my oldies and never have any problems keeping up nor stopping on a dime .

Just to - day I zizzed my '59 Mrtropolitan Nash Fixed Head Coupe up the Harbor /Pasadena Freeway in 103° F heat , pedal to the metal most of the way , I had to slow down quickly for some traffic and a tosser in a BMW who didn't like any other car (especially Nate's junkyard rig) from working through traffic and passing him.....

I had no problems stopping and never do .

I hope all here know to never turn nor machine brake drums unless there's either severe pedal pulsation or bell mouthing , this from the Bendix Corporation who designed your brakes .
 
I still "fan" my brakes, but I never knew that is what it is called. My dad and grandpa taught me this technique. What folks seem to forget is even with disc front brakes most of us still have drum rear brakes.

Thanks for the posts, always good to hear from ya'll!
 
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Acrcing New Brake Shoes

Every Dealer had at least one lazy smarta$$ who'd slap on new shoes (and ignore cleaning and lubricating the frozen adjusters) then roar out of the shop on a "test drive " with the tranny in second gear and the throttle and brake pedal both pinned ~

He'd do a couple long blocks like this and sort of , more or less arc the new shoes (glazed them up real good too) , dump it in the finished lot and go flag a full three hour brake job.....
 
Illsaveyou said:
You know you're old school when you know how to arc shoes..... !
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This made me smile. I grew up a line mechanics son. When I got old enough to drive, I picked up parts at the local auto parts store for my Dad. I was always interested in watching the guy in the back of the auto parts store "arc-ing" shoes to provide a better surface to the drums. I hope I didn't breathe in too much of that asbestos......:eek:
 
Dad's "Wizard" Tool Box

Seems like life has once again got in the way of my ole C10 tinkinering and I Haven't had much time to work on the truck.

My dad passed away early this year and my Mom gave me dad's tool box that he always carried in his daily driver vehicle. This tool box has been in some very cool vehicles:
  • 1957 Bel Air Two Door Hardtop
  • 1965 Chevrolet Impala SS
  • 1972 Chevrolet C20
  • and from there numerous late model Chevy Pickups.

As for me, if I had a dollar for everytime Dad said "John, go get the tool box" .... well let's just say I'm thinkin I could buy me a new crate motor :D.

I did some surfing on the internet and found out Dad would have bought the tool box at Western Auto around 1958. The tools are "Wizard" and were manufactured by Duro/Indestro for Western Auto.

The tool box is still in good shape, quite a bit of the paint has worn off the outside. Inside the box the original label is in decent shape and every tool is kind of like a family heirloom.

Pretty neat stuff......

John

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I'm really sorry to hear about your dad.
I apologize if you don't appreciate me quoting scripture, but this one gives me comfort:
Revelation 21:3,4 -

Western Auto..... So Cool!
We had a Western Auto in the little ol town I grew up in. It was still there when I built my 65 back in 83/84 - and I did all my shopping there.
 
Neat Stuff Indeed !

John ;

Take comfort in knowing Pops will always be riding shotgun with you .

I never heard my Dad ask me for anything , certainly not any tools .

Is Western Auto still around ? I went into the on in Alhambra on Valley Boulevard in 1977 or so , they had bicycles and washing machines but the rude salesman in a cheap suit rushed to the door and refused to allow me in the store ~ he said " we don't have anything you'd want son " ~ I never went back

That tool box is great on two counts : it's Vintage and a low rise design so it'll slide right under the passenger seat of your truck.....
 
M-21 Muncie - What Ya Using For Lube?

LostMy65 & Vwnate... Thanks for your thoughts and comments. For me, using tools from family members is about as good as it gets!

LostMy65 said:
I'm really sorry to hear about your dad.
I apologize if you don't appreciate me quoting scripture, but this one gives me comfort:
Revelation 21:3,4 -.
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Revelation 21:3-4

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
​

And now onto something I've been wondering... Just as the title states: What Ya Using For Lube on a M-21 Muncie? My '65 C-10 has red ATF trannny fluid in it from the previous owner. I need to change the lip seal in the tail housing, so now's the time to choose the right lube.
 
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Glad you ended up with the tools. It’s funny, I inherited some of my dad’s tools and I never think of them as mine. I always refer to them as “his”.

When I installed the new Richmond Super T10, the local manual transmission pro recommended I use straight Valvoline straight 50 weight motor oil (not a variable weight). I’ve been using it since new and it works tip top. Shifting is very easy. He stated there’s isn’t any need for the hypoid additives found in the old 90wt rear end lube. He also mentioned rear axles must have the hypoid additives or they’ll burn up in short order.

I got on the internet and looked up 50 wt engine oil in manual transmissions and it seems to be the current standard recommendation. The local guy also indicated if the transmission oil was changed once a year, the box would also last almost indefinitely.

I buy the Valvoline 50 wt at Napa auto. It’s never on display out front, but most stores have it in stock in the back.
 
Mark, Thanks for the reply.

I also posted a thread over on the Hotrodders website since my truck isn't sportin' the original tranny: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/m-21-muncie-what-ya-using-lube-225982.html which lead to a link over at the H.A.M.B. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290738&highlight=muncie+lube.

About the only consensus I can gather based on this is not to use ATF (installed by the previous owner), rather use gear lube 50 weight (as you suggested) to 90 weight will work. I have some 85W90 gear lube left over from replacing the front pinion bearing on my rear differential I'd like to just use that if it's compatible.

The fellas over at Team Camaro also say 85-90W Sta-Lube gear oil, and to make sure it is only "GL-4" rated, not "GL-4 and GL-5" rated. http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=211173&highlight=muncie+lube
 
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Modern Tranny Lubes

As trannies got rid of the ball bearings , it became common to run engine oils or ATF in them as this made them shift noticeably better .

I'm not really familiar with the Muncie M-21 tranny , what else does it fit ? .

I remember when GM went to ATF in manual gearboxes in the S-10 series , it really did work well ~ we had scads of these in our Munincipal Fleet for over a decade .

Older Muncies I still run 85W-90 gear oil , synthetic and so far never a failure .
Although I run my rigs pretty darn hard , I never speed shift nor slam the trannies , I often wonder if all the lubrication caused failures I read about , are actually Operator Errors .

Modern lubricants , be they thinner oils , synthetics or ATF , all seeped more than did the old honey thick gear oils so keep an eye on the level and remember to always use a magnetic drain plug .
 
Something Different

I was changing the oil on the Camaro today and snapped this photo of two old fellas from the sixties talking over the good ole days:

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