Lakeroadster
Member
Thanks to Nick for starting this new forum.
Last edited:
-
We have upgraded our forum software! See here for details.
Lakeroadster's High Country Barn
- Thread starter Lakeroadster
- Start date
Thanks to Nick for starting this new forum.
Lakeroadster
Member
Since Nick has created a Garage Forum for us I took the liberty of copying these Spring 2015 quotes from https://talk.classicparts.com/threads/lakeroadsters-build-thread-65-swb-step.13928/page-24]"Lakeroadsters' Build Thread: '65 SWB Step"[/I]
In preparation for the pending relocation of "Lakeroadster's Garage" I've been designing a new shop.
Plan is to down size this shop to make it more cost effective to build, and not worrying about making it tall enough for RV storage.
I've settled on a 30' x 44' building with a 9' side wall. Going to use scissor trusses just in the lift area, and attic trusses for the remainder. Attic trusses will provide for a bunch of storage space. The new home is about half the size of our current one, so we will need some storage space.
The side wall / scissor truss combo gives enough clearance to fully lift all our vehicles. It wouldn't work for a suburban or a minivan or a trcuk with a cap on it, but we don't have any such beasts.
Here are some screen shots of the general arrangement. If ya got any thoughts or ideas I'd love to hear them.
Sounds like an awesome set-up Steve.
At our pending new place, per HOA reg's, the building is required to be "of similar design to the home, made of similar materials." The new home has an HOA that is DOA. The subdivision was established by the older folks who owned the land. They have since passed. But a fella put up a tall blue poll building like you discussed, blue to match the color of his house, and quite frankly it looks out of place, it is the only tall building in the subdivision and the only steel building too.
So I just figured it "good game" to follow the originator's wishes and to design a building that meets my needs and that will meet their original intent. Good karma for me.
As for stooping under the cars, that won't be the case. That's the reason for the CAD models of each vehicle. Each of our vehicles ride the lift as high as the lift will go and still clear the scissor trusses (I created a CAD model of a new extended cab Silverado and used it with the lift at full position to determine the best location for the lift). What won't fit is a vehicle that has height at the rear of the vehicle, like a Suburban or a pick up truck with a cap on it.
I do like pole buildings though and had a real nice "Lester" pole building erected back east when we lived in Ohio. The classic red barn with white trim. I built a huge 10' x 30' loft in the back of it. And I'd go that route again... except for the reg's and the layout of the lot. We had 5 acres back then, and a big ole pole building looks at home on a larger lot. IMO it looks weird on a small lot right up against a small one story home.
Photo below is of the "The Big Red Barn" and 1/2 acre pond we built in Ohio. It was an empty lot when we bought the place. Truth be told, they are about the only "material" things I miss about Ohio... but I sure don't miss mowing 4 acres of grass every third day!
You can see the loft in the background of this photo....
No need to be embarrassed. My fondest memories of wrenching on cars are at my Grandfathers bank barn, helping him with his Model T Fords when I was just a kid. No doubt I wasn't much help but it was always an adventure at Grandpa's place.
His machine shop was in the belly of the barn, dark, damp and small... and packed with every tool it took to build a tin lizzie.
The shop is just the means to an end. But it's always fun building stuff, be it out of wood or out of steel.
Thanks for the input guys.
John
Last edited:
Lakeroadster
Member
And the remaining threads related to the new building.....
Upon further review.... you're right Steve, a pole barn makes a lot of sense.
I've been working with the local "Lester" rep. and we've designed a building that enables a 10 ft side wall and trusses spaced far enough apart to give the shop plenty of height for my Rotary lift.
The building won't look like a big tall pole building and therefore it should compliment the home.
The big advantage of the pole building is the lifetime warranty and the lack of maintenance....... more hiking and wrenching time makes John a happy fella.
_____
John
Last edited:
Lakeroadster
Member
Thanks for the input and thoughts guys.
Our current home looks nothing like the previous one, night and day difference. Much smaller and much more "old school" in appearance. The color of the new place is different.... but it seems to work with the pinion pine trees. We'd like to go a different color, but the composite decking materials that were used for the front porch just aren't conducive to making major color changes.
The barn will sit behind and to the right of the house so the height shouldn't be to noticeable. There is a slight slope in the lay of the lot, but not much.
We chose the earth tone trim colors on the barn to tone down the buildings appearance, and we are planning to have the uninsulated and tired overhead doors on the house replaced to match the ones on the barn.
_____
John
Our current home looks nothing like the previous one, night and day difference. Much smaller and much more "old school" in appearance. The color of the new place is different.... but it seems to work with the pinion pine trees. We'd like to go a different color, but the composite decking materials that were used for the front porch just aren't conducive to making major color changes.
The barn will sit behind and to the right of the house so the height shouldn't be to noticeable. There is a slight slope in the lay of the lot, but not much.
We chose the earth tone trim colors on the barn to tone down the buildings appearance, and we are planning to have the uninsulated and tired overhead doors on the house replaced to match the ones on the barn.
_____
John
Last edited:
50 Chevy LS3
Member
Thanks, Nick, for the new forum.
John, your new house looks like just what I would want! Smaller, less to keep up with, beautiful backdrop, I'm guessing lower taxes, no neighbors slammed up against you, and best of all, no front range traffic!
Natural gas heat is a plus. Strange, they did not try to hide the utility hookups.
I think it looks real nice, roof looks excellent.
My house is only 1100 sq. ft., and my wife says if we had a lot of $$$, she still would not want a bigger house.
Do you have a timeframe on the building? All the Amish builders around here are backed up. I'd like to get a small garden shed built here, so as to get the mowers, garden tools, stored flower pots, etc. out of MY WORKSPACE!
John, your new house looks like just what I would want! Smaller, less to keep up with, beautiful backdrop, I'm guessing lower taxes, no neighbors slammed up against you, and best of all, no front range traffic!
Natural gas heat is a plus. Strange, they did not try to hide the utility hookups.
I think it looks real nice, roof looks excellent.
My house is only 1100 sq. ft., and my wife says if we had a lot of $$$, she still would not want a bigger house.
Do you have a timeframe on the building? All the Amish builders around here are backed up. I'd like to get a small garden shed built here, so as to get the mowers, garden tools, stored flower pots, etc. out of MY WORKSPACE!
Lakeroadster
Member
Thanks Steve.
With regard to time frame we signed the contract today and were told building materials will arrive in 6-8 weeks, excavation 3-4 weeks.
Utilities.... I guess the builder of the home was proud of the Natural Gas.... it is a bit of a luxury here, most folks in this area have propane.
_____
John
With regard to time frame we signed the contract today and were told building materials will arrive in 6-8 weeks, excavation 3-4 weeks.
Utilities.... I guess the builder of the home was proud of the Natural Gas.... it is a bit of a luxury here, most folks in this area have propane.
_____
John
ccharr
Member
This is nice John, Glad Nick did this it's so Kool.
I'm getting ready to start a 40'x 40' Canopy for my old park model coach I have in the desert, the storms they had two weeks ago took the canopy off the coach.
You scissor designed truss system is perfect for what I plan on putting over the coach.
I'm getting ready to start a 40'x 40' Canopy for my old park model coach I have in the desert, the storms they had two weeks ago took the canopy off the coach.
You scissor designed truss system is perfect for what I plan on putting over the coach.
Lakeroadster
Member
Glad the scissor truss was helpful to ya Charles.
A machine shop buddy of mine once said "There isn't anything we can't fix".... if that doesn't sum up America, I don't know what does.
_____
John
A machine shop buddy of mine once said "There isn't anything we can't fix".... if that doesn't sum up America, I don't know what does.
_____
John
Last edited:
Lakeroadster
Member
Ours is about 1200 sq ft also Nate.... just right for the better half and I. Smaller would work if we had moe storage space.... that'll come, once the barn is built. I'm wanting to build a loft with some enclosed storage.
Now that we have decided to build a pole barn...... this thread should be renamed "Lakeroadster's High Country Barn"
I mean you restore / fix / hotrod stuff out in the barn, right?
_____
John
Last edited:
Working Space
No John ;
I'm still working out side , I now have a canvas " temporary garage " thing I don't have the side curtains on .
At least I no longer work in the dirt ~ when I moved to Sunny Southern California in 1970 , that was the very first thing they broke me of doing .
I now won't work on asphalt unless it's an emergency curbside repair .
No John ;
I'm still working out side , I now have a canvas " temporary garage " thing I don't have the side curtains on .
At least I no longer work in the dirt ~ when I moved to Sunny Southern California in 1970 , that was the very first thing they broke me of doing
.I now won't work on asphalt unless it's an emergency curbside repair .
Lakeroadster
Member
Working on your classic in the sun... file that as "it's all good".
_____
John
_____
John
Last edited:
Working
Well ;
I'm Scots - Irish so I don't do well in the direct sun .
Yesterday it was 109? F in Pasadena so naturally , I was working on the engine and fuel injections systems ~
It was beastly hot but as they say , a dry heat so in spite of the sweat running out of my hair and into my eyes and greasing my glasses , I got it all done and buttoned back up again and running , the test drive revealed no leaks and much better running but lemme tell ya ~ Diesel engines are always greasy to work on no matter how clean you keep them , doing diesel fuel injection works in the heat sux BIG TIME .
At least my Dogs were there to keep me company
.
We broke records for heat all over So. Cal. yesterday , as both cars were grimy I was up washing them before sunup to - day , the sun broached the horizon as I was cleaning the (filthy) wheels and tires....
Every Summer just as the heat gets really bad , I wind up doing major service or engine overhauls .
Oh well , good thing I like to work .
Well ;
I'm Scots - Irish so I don't do well in the direct sun .
Yesterday it was 109? F in Pasadena so naturally , I was working on the engine and fuel injections systems ~
It was beastly hot but as they say , a dry heat so in spite of the sweat running out of my hair and into my eyes and greasing my glasses , I got it all done and buttoned back up again and running , the test drive revealed no leaks and much better running but lemme tell ya ~ Diesel engines are always greasy to work on no matter how clean you keep them , doing diesel fuel injection works in the heat sux BIG TIME .
At least my Dogs were there to keep me company
.We broke records for heat all over So. Cal. yesterday , as both cars were grimy I was up washing them before sunup to - day , the sun broached the horizon as I was cleaning the (filthy) wheels and tires....
Every Summer just as the heat gets really bad , I wind up doing major service or engine overhauls .
Oh well , good thing I like to work .
Lakeroadster
Member
Approval Drawings, Round One 09-01-2015
We received the approval drawings last week from the Lester rep.
I red lined them and sent them back. The main bay trusses weren't in the correct location, they had way to much cross bracing in the trusses and they had the man door swinging out.
The cross bracing would have rendered the area between the trusses useless for storage.... and since I am planning on adding lofts at a later date I asked them to "engineer their way around" all the bracing.
Having been an Engineer for 35 years I expected a couple of back and forth exchanges with the drawings before they can be released for fabrication, so the above is pretty much standard operating procedure.
Wall Girts 09-01-2015
We also traveled down to Canon City last week to look at the Lester building that is currently being erected. It was an educational trip for us. One thing we wanted to review was the practice of installing the wall girts horizontal, also known as "Book Shelf Girts" see detail FF464 below. The rep. had stated that with this configuration the exterior girt edge is used for the exterior metal sheathing and the interior edge for the interior wall sheathing. Good idea, but there are implementation issues. The factory specified quan. of four 10d nails in each end of the girts, which are 2 x 6's. All those large nails split the girt boards so badly that you could kick most of them loose with your foot.
And if the vertical girt configuration is used they use a quan. of six nails?
I've specified that Concealed Flange Joist Hangers be used on my barn for the wall girts and that the girts be installed vertically. I/we haven't been able to find a commercially available hanger for a horizontally mounted 2 x 6, which is understandable as this is a non conventional mounting arrangement for a joist.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Site Plan Drawings 09-08-2015
Yesterday I finalized the Site Plan Drawings. So when the factory gets the drawings back to us we will be ready to submit the drawings to the county for a permit.
And I updated the outline drawing to reflect the current configuration of the shop.
_____
John
We received the approval drawings last week from the Lester rep.
I red lined them and sent them back. The main bay trusses weren't in the correct location, they had way to much cross bracing in the trusses and they had the man door swinging out.
The cross bracing would have rendered the area between the trusses useless for storage.... and since I am planning on adding lofts at a later date I asked them to "engineer their way around" all the bracing.
Having been an Engineer for 35 years I expected a couple of back and forth exchanges with the drawings before they can be released for fabrication, so the above is pretty much standard operating procedure.
Wall Girts 09-01-2015
We also traveled down to Canon City last week to look at the Lester building that is currently being erected. It was an educational trip for us. One thing we wanted to review was the practice of installing the wall girts horizontal, also known as "Book Shelf Girts" see detail FF464 below. The rep. had stated that with this configuration the exterior girt edge is used for the exterior metal sheathing and the interior edge for the interior wall sheathing. Good idea, but there are implementation issues. The factory specified quan. of four 10d nails in each end of the girts, which are 2 x 6's. All those large nails split the girt boards so badly that you could kick most of them loose with your foot.
And if the vertical girt configuration is used they use a quan. of six nails?
I've specified that Concealed Flange Joist Hangers be used on my barn for the wall girts and that the girts be installed vertically. I/we haven't been able to find a commercially available hanger for a horizontally mounted 2 x 6, which is understandable as this is a non conventional mounting arrangement for a joist.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Site Plan Drawings 09-08-2015
Yesterday I finalized the Site Plan Drawings. So when the factory gets the drawings back to us we will be ready to submit the drawings to the county for a permit.
And I updated the outline drawing to reflect the current configuration of the shop.
_____
John
Last edited:
50 Chevy LS3
Member
John, l'm trying to understand what you want to achieve by going to a toe-nailed wall girt versus the outer flat nailed girt. Toe-nailing is never as solid IMO, as straight flat nailing.
The idea of building with inset wall girts, means these high speed pole barn builders are going to slow way down to carefully cut each board to fit precisely and maintain true vertical on your posts. That's perfectly fine, the buyer should get what he wants.
My barn was built with traditional outside girts, laminated poles on eight foot centers. Years later, as I have had the time, I built wall sections to fit precisely inside each pole, with about 23" centered wall studs, vertical, then used house insulation between studs, and plywood/steel lining.
I'll post some pics when I get home. One other thing I would advise, make them screw the steel on, no nails!
The idea of building with inset wall girts, means these high speed pole barn builders are going to slow way down to carefully cut each board to fit precisely and maintain true vertical on your posts. That's perfectly fine, the buyer should get what he wants.
My barn was built with traditional outside girts, laminated poles on eight foot centers. Years later, as I have had the time, I built wall sections to fit precisely inside each pole, with about 23" centered wall studs, vertical, then used house insulation between studs, and plywood/steel lining.
I'll post some pics when I get home. One other thing I would advise, make them screw the steel on, no nails!
Lakeroadster
Member
I agree Steve.
Lester, the building manufacturer, used to have these nifty columns made from (3) laminated 2 x 6's. They set them up so the center 2 x 6 stuck out 1-1/2".
Then when you nailed the girt to the column it butted against the center laminated board, and nailed to the outer laminated board.
The building they made for me back in the early 90's was made that way..... they don't build columns like this anymore?
I have specifying joist hangers.. should make for a much better building, easier to layout, and a stronger end result.
When you built the interior walls in your barn did you make them floating walls... such that they don't attach to the slab... like shown below?
_____
John
Lester, the building manufacturer, used to have these nifty columns made from (3) laminated 2 x 6's. They set them up so the center 2 x 6 stuck out 1-1/2".
Then when you nailed the girt to the column it butted against the center laminated board, and nailed to the outer laminated board.
The building they made for me back in the early 90's was made that way..... they don't build columns like this anymore?
I have specifying joist hangers.. should make for a much better building, easier to layout, and a stronger end result.
When you built the interior walls in your barn did you make them floating walls... such that they don't attach to the slab... like shown below?
_____
John
Last edited:
50 Chevy LS3
Member
John, first of all, I really like the design of your pictured, "LESTER" built column, with the center 2x6 extended to make a stop for the wall girts. My "FBI" building columns are simply all laminated flush with each other. The "laminated" design is better IMO, because they cut the center board to make a notch for the roof truss, and only the part of the column below ground level needs to be treated. I've never seen one built like your picture.
The interior walls on my shop are sections inserted into the area between the vertical posts or, columns and sit on the concrete, but are not fastened to it, simply screwed, with deck screws to the column. The "base board" is treated 2x6, the rest is just standard pine.
I did not leave any space for slab movement, and have not detected any up or down movement in the 14-15 years the concrete has been there. To explain further, my shop was built in 1990, and filled with 10" to 20" of #53 crushed limestone to floor level. I could not afford concrete at the time. then packed down with 10-11 years of heavy trucks being parked and worked on inside. It was so packed, I could jack-up a loaded trailer with a bottle jack right on the rock. When the Amish fellows I hired to do the concrete tried to drag out some of the rock, they could not do it by hand. My John Deere had to do it. Once pulled down to allow 6" of concrete, we put down sheet plastic to slow the cure of the concrete, and they went at it. The plastic worked so well, they were working late that night. My shop is also well drained and has gutters and downspouts.
Here are the only pics. I could find of the walls being built.
I hope this posts correctly, new format and all...
The interior walls on my shop are sections inserted into the area between the vertical posts or, columns and sit on the concrete, but are not fastened to it, simply screwed, with deck screws to the column. The "base board" is treated 2x6, the rest is just standard pine.
I did not leave any space for slab movement, and have not detected any up or down movement in the 14-15 years the concrete has been there. To explain further, my shop was built in 1990, and filled with 10" to 20" of #53 crushed limestone to floor level. I could not afford concrete at the time. then packed down with 10-11 years of heavy trucks being parked and worked on inside. It was so packed, I could jack-up a loaded trailer with a bottle jack right on the rock. When the Amish fellows I hired to do the concrete tried to drag out some of the rock, they could not do it by hand. My John Deere had to do it. Once pulled down to allow 6" of concrete, we put down sheet plastic to slow the cure of the concrete, and they went at it. The plastic worked so well, they were working late that night. My shop is also well drained and has gutters and downspouts.
Here are the only pics. I could find of the walls being built.
I hope this posts correctly, new format and all...
Attachments
50 Chevy LS3
Member
Another thing that occured to me about your visit to a project at Canon City, was, the splitting of the boards on that project might be due to extremely dry pine boards. I've never seen that problem, but, don't live in dry climate like Canon City. That would concern me as a customer, or as a builder. What about pre-drilling the girts? More time involved, but, I would not want to build a building without that problem solved. Also, how about using deck screws instead of nails?
One other thing I thought of for your project, is floor heat. The big-time farm guys around here are putting tubing in their concrete floors to circulate heated water and it seems to work great.
It would be great if you could drill into one of those Colorado hot springs and get it for free.
Oh, and the nails versus screws to attach the steel, you cannot hardly pull a pole-barn nail once set.
One other thing I thought of for your project, is floor heat. The big-time farm guys around here are putting tubing in their concrete floors to circulate heated water and it seems to work great.
It would be great if you could drill into one of those Colorado hot springs and get it for free.
Oh, and the nails versus screws to attach the steel, you cannot hardly pull a pole-barn nail once set.
Lakeroadster
Member
Steve I sincerely appreciate all your input.
Would you believe Lester ships the wood to the job site from their factory? They cut everything to size. I agree, splitting wood as a result of nailing = poor mechanical joints = unacceptable. I plan to be hangin' out with the guys doing the construction, acting as QA. I'm sure they'll be thrilled. I was a QA Manager for the last 25 years so I know it'll likely be a bit tedious, but as long as they build to the drawing there won;t be any issues.
Screws instead of nails... Exactly! That's part of the reason I specified joist hangers for the girts... and the contractor said he'll be using screws. Lester does use screws to attach the metal to the wooden framing... screws with rubber washers.
Interior Walls
Heating
Would you believe Lester ships the wood to the job site from their factory? They cut everything to size. I agree, splitting wood as a result of nailing = poor mechanical joints = unacceptable. I plan to be hangin' out with the guys doing the construction, acting as QA. I'm sure they'll be thrilled. I was a QA Manager for the last 25 years so I know it'll likely be a bit tedious, but as long as they build to the drawing there won;t be any issues.
Screws instead of nails... Exactly! That's part of the reason I specified joist hangers for the girts... and the contractor said he'll be using screws. Lester does use screws to attach the metal to the wooden framing... screws with rubber washers.
Interior Walls
There are bunch of folks that, like you, put the sill plate right on the floor and build the wall. My thought, being Mr. Conservative, is that just in case there is slab movement the floating wall concept is good insurance. It's also nice that the cost isn't that much more.
I do know that the floating slab in the garage at our previous home lifted at an expansion joint about 1-1/2". Seems like that could be a big deal in a pole barn application.
Are your vertical wall studs 24" on center?
I do know that the floating slab in the garage at our previous home lifted at an expansion joint about 1-1/2". Seems like that could be a big deal in a pole barn application.
Are your vertical wall studs 24" on center?
Heating
With the mild climate I don't think I'll need much heat if I do a good job of insulating. I got by with a couple 220 volt electric hanging heaters at the last shop.. and I still have them.
Did you end up putting in a ceiling or did you instead insulate between the purlins?
_____
John
Did you end up putting in a ceiling or did you instead insulate between the purlins?
_____
John
50 Chevy LS3
Member
My wall studs are about 23" spacing. The columns are 8' on center, so, I just made the wall "units" evenly spaced. I used the 24"X 5.5" insulation bats for homes built with 2X6s. Bought them whenever they were on sale at Menards. I think they are R-19. Still not finished with the walls, and, sadly, have not started on the ceiling!
My thoughts on the ceiling are to use commercial hi-rib steel, attached to the bottom of the trusses with screws. I'm told, if you use the hi-rib, you don't need any additional support.
I know, without a ceiling, all my heat is going straight up and out.
The thing is, too many things to do, too little time...
That is why my 50 Chevy is not finished.
My thoughts on the ceiling are to use commercial hi-rib steel, attached to the bottom of the trusses with screws. I'm told, if you use the hi-rib, you don't need any additional support.
I know, without a ceiling, all my heat is going straight up and out.
The thing is, too many things to do, too little time...
That is why my 50 Chevy is not finished.