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Building a clone of grandpa's service truck

vwnate1 said:
Damon ;

That's a nice clear & concise writeup of the disc brake up grade .
Click to expand...

Thanks, Nate! Just trying to give a little back. You folks here have been a HUGE help to me with this project.

I packed the bearings the only way I know how... grease in the palm of my hand, bearing in the other... then force the grease into the back side of the bearing a little at a time til it oozes out the top and sides of the rollers.

Glad to have those brakes on! Now I can assemble the engine and finish the rear axle work. I also need to paint and mount the four new frame shock mounts I bought from our host. Lots to do, but man is it fun!

Damon
 
Modyfing setup.

Thanks for your information Damon.

I am not tempted to cut or remove the axle stops but i can handle to modify them new brackets. The question is how would i do that ? So if there is anyone out there whom have done it this way with a good and save result i would be glad if someone posted some photos and wright some words on ths issue. Your setup looks very clean and welldone. Thanks you for sharing all this.

When it concerns to paint color codes there are as many discussions around that subject ! I have tryed out didfferent ways to get the right mixture and compared all with the original factory color . After mine opinion the grey paint color from Hirsch is pretty close to the original factory color.In the old days GM used Ditzler and Dupont colors , the color codes are availeble and posseble to reconstruct to modern codes but i am not into that. Maybe Bill Hanlon or Ol `Chebby have the old color chart information ? before you start painting see to it that your engine block has must be clean from dust , smudge and old paint. Spraypainting with a paintpistol is absolutely the best way to go. Now this is mentioned i recommend you`d use a 2 component surfacer/primer 1 time and high gloss color paint ( 2 strokes) .The 2 component paint resists oil and smudge very well and allows you to wash or steam the engine later !

Martinius.:D
SinclairChevy said:
Martinius,

This is the kit from our host:

http://www.classicparts.com/1947-59...-Slotted-Drilled-Rotors/productinfo/71-975W5/

Click the 'brake rotor option' and choose 'plain rotors'. This will take the image away. It's the same kit, but the rotors are not drilled for cooling. Since you are not going to add power steering, be prepared to have to modify the caliper brackets and/or the steering stops so there won't be any clearance issues. I suppose you could try to mount the calipers to the front of the spindles instead of the back. Or... you could move the steering stops from the back of the axle to the front. I would be interested to see what kind of solution you came up with to the problem. If you're going to stick with the six-lug hubs, maybe there wouldn't be a clearance problem in the first place, I don't know.

Best of luck!

Damon
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Martinius,

Thank you for the tips on the engine paint. I'm looking forward to this engine build with much anticipation.

As far as the brake caliper brackets and their modification... it's my opinion that you will need to grind material away on the side of the bracket that faces the front of the truck, and weld in material on the side that faces the rear of the truck. I'm at work today, but I will take some photos to better explain my idea. The brackets manufactured now are not the same as brackets I've seen photos of online. My best guess is that the brackets available now are more of a generic bracket that can be used for multiple vehicles, as opposed to the manufacturer having to produce several different types of brackets. The reasoning, of course, would be to keep production costs down. In the photos and web links I've posted on the subject (click back a few pages on this thread), you can see how the brackets that do fit our trucks properly are shaped differently than the brackets available today. The difference is slight, but it's enough that there is interference between the bolt-on steering stop and the caliper bracket.

Another solution to the interference problem you may consider, would be to move the bolt-on steering stop to the front side of the axle. You would have measure the steering movement with the stop in its factory location, and after you've moved it to see if the limits of the steering geometry stay the same. To me, if the geometry does remain the same, this is a much more simple fix of the issue than modifying the caliper brackets.

Damon
 
Understood your mechanic solution

Damon

Thank you so much for this information. I `ll understood that your mechanicall solution concerning how to moove the stops in a secure way at the front. its most likely easyer to moove as they are bolted but i to have questions how to keep its right geometry ? But its absolutely worth trying and a easy re-install . If your going for that solution i would love to see your photos in progress as i have`nt ordered the upgrade kit yet !

Engine overhaul is an intresting job but mostly costs a lot of time and money ofcourse. As this is mentioned i am not shore in what way you wanna remanufacture your engine but Patricks Patrick & son and Danese Dykes) in Casa grande are experts on the 216 and 235 engines and have all the needing parts to get the complete overhaul done. Besides that he and his son are " old school " mecanics and know what there doing. There sevice is excellent to . I would suggest that you could make a total inspection of your old engine parts. Have your block and top ex-rayed at your local machine shop and planned to . Its important to clean all the water and oil channels wich you can easely do yourself at home using warm water at high pressure ! Your compression will get up to 7.5 psi in each cylinder after honed or carefully boored when this is needed.
If you deside to go for a complete overhaul i want to recommend Patricks because they have complete engine overhaul kits on the shelf with hardened pistons, valves , seats, cam ect. And his prices are resonneble when buying there:).

The best way to reach him at the office is to make a phonecall and talk to him telling what year engine and size you have and what your plans are with it !

Good luck and thanks Martinius.
SinclairChevy said:
Martinius,

Thank you for the tips on the engine paint. I'm looking forward to this engine build with much anticipation.

As far as the brake caliper brackets and their modification... it's my opinion that you will need to grind material away on the side of the bracket that faces the front of the truck, and weld in material on the side that faces the rear of the truck. I'm at work today, but I will take some photos to better explain my idea. The brackets manufactured now are not the same as brackets I've seen photos of online. My best guess is that the brackets available now are more of a generic bracket that can be used for multiple vehicles, as opposed to the manufacturer having to produce several different types of brackets. The reasoning, of course, would be to keep production costs down. In the photos and web links I've posted on the subject (click back a few pages on this thread), you can see how the brackets that do fit our trucks properly are shaped differently than the brackets available today. The difference is slight, but it's enough that there is interference between the bolt-on steering stop and the caliper bracket.

Another solution to the interference problem you may consider, would be to move the bolt-on steering stop to the front side of the axle. You would have measure the steering movement with the stop in its factory location, and after you've moved it to see if the limits of the steering geometry stay the same. To me, if the geometry does remain the same, this is a much more simple fix of the issue than modifying the caliper brackets.

Damon
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Martinius,

The machine work is complete on my engine, I just have to decide on an intake, carb(s), valve cover, etc. I spoke with Patrick when I was still trying to decide on an engine, but now that I have the 235 build started... I will see what he suggests for aspiration.

I would suggest you raise and support your front axle with the tires barely off the ground. Turn the steering wheel from stop to stop, marking on the ground the angle of the tires. This could easily be done with a board or piece of plywood held against the wheel/tire. Then, remove the nut and the lock washer on the back of the axle holding the steering stops in place. Remove the steering stops, and drive out the king pin retainer bold with a punch. Reinstall the bolt from the back side towards the front side, and secure with the lock washer and nut. Perform the same test again and compare the results of the lines on the pavement. Unfortunately it won't be completely accurate the second time, as there is an indexing nub on the steering stop. There is not a recess on the front of the axle in which the stop can sit, so the measurement may be slightly off. I suppose you could drill a small hole in the front of the axle before you begin the second test, that would allow the steering stop to sit flush on the front of the axle, just like it does on the back.

Good luck!

Damon
 
Intake,exhaust headers and carbs

Damon

Thanks for your excellent suggestions on how to do the swap and the testing. When it concerns the intake the Offenhouser , Fenton or other dual intakes like Tattersfield are functioning the same way made in aluminum and there quality is good, probebly you know. The Tattersfield intake is far beyond a better look i`ll think because of the round curves it have . As for the exhaust headers the Fenton are great ( Patricks sells them complete with pipe flanges). Carbs brands are many to install . The most politely onces and easy to install on the dual intake are the Stromberg modell 97 1 bbl or 2 bbl , Carter 1 bbl YF with auto choke for the 235 CU engine , Carter & Weber 2 bbl modell 740 ( from Tom Langdon) complete with adapters/gaskets and linkage kit for the Fenton setup.

The single setup is very good aswell with original setup and oilbath air cleaner.
Today i use a remanufactured Carter YF with auto choke for the 235 engine and it works beatifully. But i want more power and have choosen for the Carter& Weber , Fenton intake and exhaust headers. I am not going to install the water hoses Tom recommended to the intake but use copper lines from the headers to the intake i front.

http://stoveboltengineco.com/catalog/store/

http://www.patricksantiquecars.com/chevy_parts.html

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/search-Stromberg-97.html

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedys-9-Super-7-3-Bolt-Carburetor,24691.html

Exhaust dual pipe ; i am going to weld the new pipe flanges on top of each pipe end. But i will make a crossover like Volker at this forum has done ( there are photos here of this setup). The reason i wanna do it in this way is no compression and power lost. The double set of pipes all the way to the end of the truck gives aprox. 15-20 % reduced power but it looks very very cool ofcourse:).

Nice talking to you Martinius.
 
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I went to O'Reilly's this morning and bought some Copper Coat when I got off of work. Planning on maybe starting the engine assembly today. I purchased an episode of Horsepower TV from their website last week. If any of you watch the series "Trucks," you've seen Project ClasSix. It's a 1948 Chevy pick-up that was built on that show. The 235 inline-six for the truck was built on Horsepower TV. That's the episode I purchased. It's a pretty good show, but they could've skipped the segment about the little import and covered the engine build in more detail. If you're interested in checking out that episode, here it is: http://www.powerblocktv.com/player/show_player.php?ep_num=HP2010-16&ep_show=HP

I think I'll try to get the head bolted on today. My oil pan seems like it's a little damaged. Might anyone out there in AD land have a spare in good condition they'd be willing to sell? My engine block doesn't have the straight sides at the pan, it has the 'bows' on each side about mid-way. I could post photos of what I need if it would help. Maybe my oil pan is fine, I dunno.

Anyway, anyone have any engine assembly tips for a first-time builder? The short block and head are done, I just have to put everything together. Thanks again in advance!

Damon
 
Great craftmanship indeed.

I noticed they did`nt installed any short shaft waterpump wich gives some better options when thinking of installing a modern dynamo 12 v but the older type generator works well to ofcourse if you still want to use the original long model waterpump thats good to.
I used aluminum grease ( heat resistant lube ) under the gasket and the blue carbon lube where the rockers and cam-springs are placed as they are using. Pistons and rocker arms without any lubing. Piston arm bolts and shims using excact measurement shims ( maybe different thickness?) and torque as the book says to provide shells from damaging , as no lube is used here. Turn the main engine shaft around a couple of times and look carefully if it turns freely and not pinches. I had the machine shop to do this as it has to be done very accurate with a micro meter instrument. Using these new haudraulic lifters and other new parts is maybe moore expencive but the final results are very good and wurth every penny. When tightning the cylinder head bolts follow a crossover pattern and tighten as mentioned in the book. After a hundred miles driving the engine top bolts has to be re-tightened with the same torque pressure . Inspect the oil supply tubes to the rocker arms so they are not closed with any smudge.

Else the engine remanufacturing in this movie is shows great craftmanship in one word :)

This web link gives a lot of information;http://www.speedprint.com/deves50/deveshowto.php

Thanks for sharing Damon.
 
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Engine Building

Always one of my favorites .

Use thick oil on the various crank bearings , cam lube on the cam lobes and tappet heels .

Assemble the pistons , rings abd cylinders 1,000 % DRY ~ not a drop of oil , this ensures the pistons & rings will bed in 100 % in the initial 60 seconds of startup .

When torquing the cylinder head , begin @ 5# and follow the pattern then go to 20 # and repeat , keep going in 10 # increments until you reach the final torque spec , this draws up the mallable cylinder head more evenly and is why German cars never blow head gaskets.... also Hoda CARTS engines , Bell Textron Aircraft engines and so on .

Does this block require main bearing shims underneath the center main bearing caps ? . always torque those up first so if there's any binding , you'll discover it and stop before you crush & ruin the bearing shell .

I prefer to use laminated mylar bearing shim , it's easy to trim to size with regular scissors and all Brand 'F' "A' Model partshaus' have it cheaply .
 
Nate,

Thank you for your input and tips. The short block is already assembled, as is the head. I had the machine shop take care of all of that stuff a few months ago, as I didn't feel comfortable taking on that work at the time. I need to assemble the head and block, install the oil pump, cam, front engine mount, exhaust/intake manifolds, etc.

That's a good idea about torquing the head bolts in three stages, I will do that. I borrowed a '48-'53 shop manual from my girlfriend's dad so I will be reading up on more engine assembly/tune up tips from the factory.

Since the short block is assembled, I believe the machinist took care of the shims under the main caps. I will go through the paperwork I got back with the engine to confirm this. He's a trusted guy, the best in a 50 mile radius, so I'm sure he did me right.

Evan posted a gentleman's contact info in another thread... he's supposed to have oodles of intake and exhaust manifolds. Still considering options as far as aspiration. Do you have recommendations on an intake/carburetor(s)?

Martinius,

I will be installing the short water pump on my engine, but I've yet to purchase one. The first engine I bought had studs in the first two head bolts on the driver's side of the block. Those bolts allow for an alternator or power steering bracket to be placed relatively easy at the top of the block. I will be reusing those bolts for exactly that purpose. I may have to fabricate my own bracket, but that won't be a problem.

Thanks again, everyone!

Damon
 
Final Assembly

If the crank turns without binds , you're good to go ~ I'd not worry about it .

Consider how you do the initial breakin , it should be done within the first 6 seconds of run time , not after you've fiddled around with it a while .

Begin with one YF Carby and once it's broken in and has a few thousand miles on it , I suggest a dual Carby set up with two perfectly matched Carter YF Carbys .

In truth , Max. power & economy will be gained by running three
matched Carbys *but* setting them up and balancing them is tricky , some folks take a shine to it , once done they DO NOT go out of adjustment for at least 40,000 miles if ever .

Just follow your heart here , have fun ~ you can always add more bling & speed things later on .
 
Nate,

I got brave and brought the short block and head home tonight. Gonna start digging through boxes to find the head bolts and what not so I can start reassembly.

I surfed around eBay tonight looking for Carter YF carbs. There appears to be many different models based on the YF. Do you know the specific model number I should be looking for?

Thanks again!

Damon
 
Carter YF carb for 235 CU engine !

Damon

I have installed the model 967 S for the 235 engine wich works fantastic. The web link " carburetor doctor in Canada discribes the YF very well or the Old chevy manuals page has also information.

Martinius.
 
So I got brave the other night and decided to start assembling my engine. I've been staring at it for a while now, and since it wouldn't put itself together, I had to step in. Well... I think I may have screwed up my head gasket. I used some Copper Coat on each side of the gasket, and placed it on the block. Then I set the head in place... three or four times before I got the holes to line up. I started all of the bolts, then got the torque wrench out to start the torque sequence. I set the wrench at 5#, per Nate's recommendation, and got to work. Problem is, it wasn't clicking like it's supposed to, and the first bolt felt like it was getting pretty tight. So... I took the torque wrench back to where I bought it, and they warrantied it out for me. Brought home the new one... same story. So I have a question: do you think maybe that the gasket is so hard to compress that the bolts feel like they're getting tight... but they're actually not? Regardless, I'm going to remove the head and check the gasket. If it looks okay, I'll just start the assembly process all over again. I just thought it was odd that the bolts felt like they were getting tight, but the torque wrench wasn't clicking.

As I get the engine assembled, I'll post some photos. Didn't wanna take any pictures of this first effort... :eek:

Hope everyone has a Happy Labor Day!!

Damon
 
Cylinder Head Torquing

DON'T take it apart just yet , try setting the Torque Wrench to 15 # and giving it a light pull , you may have missed the " click " @ 5 # , it's a pretty soft click until you get up past 20 # or so .

I have an old BMC 'B' series 1500 engine in my Met , it had been weeping coolant into somwhere , I'd find a bit of milky oil inside the oil filler cap most days , I ordered up a new head gasket but just for this weekend's Sports Car Run , I re - Torqued the head and then checked and adjusted the valves , only a few of the nuts took any Torque but so far , no coolant inside the engine..... :rolleyes: .

I think I'll let it ride for now as the front suspension is *SO* loose it's beginning to scare me .

To - day as I was running away from some Foreign Sports Cars down Tuna Canyon Road , I broke off the left rear wheel :eek: .

This is the FOURTH time I have broken a wheel , all have been left side , the other three were all left front .

I may have to begin using those fugly ' Rostyle ' wheels , ick . (better than wrecking the car I guess :rolleyes:)
 
Nate,

You're right, I was missing the light 'click.' I went ahead and removed the head anyway, and my suspicions were confirmed. I tore the copper head gasket at one or two of the bolt holes. I'm going to go to O'Reilly's in the morning and order a new one. I'm also going to 'make' some dowels tomorrow to aid in the re-installation of the head when the new gasket comes in.

I'm sure glad you haven't had any major incidents with busting your wheels!! Damn! What are these wheels made out of... papier-mâché? Sounds like some new wheels may be in order, I dunno.

Next question. Do you guys have a favorite product for dissolving rust? After I get the head back on the 235, I need to go over the block with something to finish cleaning it up. I was under the mistaken impression that hot-dipping the block would take care of the rust, but that's not the case. There is still quite a bit of flaky rust hanging around. I could go the wire wheel route, but I'm concerned that the rust dust will creep its way into the block, even if I try to seal things up. I'm thinking that dissolving the rust is the safer route. At any rate, I'll need to prep the engine for paint, and the rust that's there will need to be gone before I can put color the block. The head is fine, it was shot-blasted.

Thanks again.

Damon
 
Rust problem

The cast iron block will start corroding at once the oxygen comes to it. What you could do is have paint remover on it wash that of, use different sizes steelbrushes ment for a drill then blow it drey with your air compressor and once it is drey, then wash everything with thinner to get the greasy fingers of, have a stroke with heatresistent 2 component acidfri surfacer paint on it , then the final heatres. 2 comp. grey color paint with gloss. Alternative is f.exp. glass blowing your block and top wich makes it clean but changes the surface structure a bit greyish.

That will do the job , mine is still very nice after 3 years.
 
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Head Gasket ' Fun '

Gaskets are cheap , not so much your back when it pops out as you're bent over the fender juggling that head into place...... ;)

Don't sweat the surface rust until the head is in place and you've taped up all the openings , then use a wire brush and rinse off the crud & oil residue with Ether (cheap starting fluid in Foo-Foo cans) before painting . I don't believe in priming enging blocks , too much heat retention . just lay on one good coat of paint , it should remain for decades if you use good quality paint .

I suppose I outghta slow the Metro down in the hills but it's *SO* much fun ! . especially the parts where fancy ' Sports Cars ' can't keep up .

I nearly went off a cliff this spring when the left front wheel detached at speed so I must needs do something , not sure what yet . I hate the appearance of the Rostyles but they're *very* sturdy . I have to watch every penny I spend but , Safety is paramount too .

I'm trying to take the front suspension apart now but things are rusted into place .

I might have to buy a $99 Port - A - Power @ Harbor Freight to - day ,
we'll see .

-Nate
SinclairChevy said:
Nate,

You're right, I was missing the light 'click.' I went ahead and removed the head anyway, and my suspicions were confirmed. I tore the copper head gasket at one or two of the bolt holes. I'm going to go to O'Reilly's in the morning and order a new one. I'm also going to 'make' some dowels tomorrow to aid in the re-installation of the head when the new gasket comes in.

I'm sure glad you haven't had any major incidents with busting your wheels!! Damn! What are these wheels made out of... papier-mâché? Sounds like some new wheels may be in order, I dunno.

Next question. Do you guys have a favorite product for dissolving rust? After I get the head back on the 235, I need to go over the block with something to finish cleaning it up. I was under the mistaken impression that hot-dipping the block would take care of the rust, but that's not the case. There is still quite a bit of flaky rust hanging around. I could go the wire wheel route, but I'm concerned that the rust dust will creep its way into the block, even if I try to seal things up. I'm thinking that dissolving the rust is the safer route. At any rate, I'll need to prep the engine for paint, and the rust that's there will need to be gone before I can put color the block. The head is fine, it was shot-blasted.

Thanks again.

Damon
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Painting the block and top separete

Nate

Its not recommended to paint any of the gaskets as it makes them dry as the hard chemicals in the paint can damage them, i whas recommended to paint each object separetly. The heat that comes from your painted block is of no concern as its heated and cooled by air and water wich actually is an advantange for this kinda paint as it bites its self into the rough steel surface. A good remanufactured block and top never gets overheated when the thermostate is working properly and have good water circulation. Its a bit moore work painting your engine this way but i think you should go fore what you assume is best your self.

Martinius.





vwnate1 said:
Gaskets are cheap , not so much your back when it pops out as you're bent over the fender juggling that head into place...... ;)

Don't sweat the surface rust until the head is in place and you've taped up all the openings , then use a wire brush and rinse off the crud & oil residue with Ether (cheap starting fluid in Foo-Foo cans) before painting . I don't believe in priming enging blocks , too much heat retention . just lay on one good coat of paint , it should remain for decades if you use good quality paint .

I suppose I outghta slow the Metro down in the hills but it's *SO* much fun ! . especially the parts where fancy ' Sports Cars ' can't keep up .

I nearly went off a cliff this spring when the left front wheel detached at speed so I must needs do something , not sure what yet . I hate the appearance of the Rostyles but they're *very* sturdy . I have to watch every penny I spend but , Safety is paramount too .

I'm trying to take the front suspension apart now but things are rusted into place .

I might have to buy a $99 Port - A - Power @ Harbor Freight to - day ,
we'll see .

-Nate
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